Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books

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Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2020, 03:15:58 PM »
In my opinion, he intentionally used the book The Shark And The Sardines as a subliminal indication of (at least part of) his motive. It was the only book that we know of that he didn’t return. And it hits right at the heart of LHO’s belief that Cuba and his hero Castro were being treated unfairly by the United States. His infamous communist fist salute was another similar indication. He wasn’t ready to confess, at least until he acquired an attorney to represent him. His brother Robert believes that LHO would have confessed eventually. I tend to agree with Robert Oswald on that.

In spite of the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis, LHO admired JFK by all indications and he understood that US policy towards Cuba wouldn’t change if LBJ replaced Kennedy...

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2020, 02:58:08 PM »
In spite of the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis, LHO admired JFK by all indications and he understood that US policy towards Cuba wouldn’t change if LBJ replaced Kennedy...

LBJ believed that Castro was behind the assassination. He was afraid of Castro. He stopped the CIA attempts to assassinate Castro that the Kennedys were reportedly behind. LHO liked some of JFK’s actions on civil rights, etc. But it appears to me that LHO was squarely against JFK’s policies regarding the ongoing actions designed to destabilize the Castro regime.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2020, 05:57:36 PM »
LBJ believed that Castro was behind the assassination. He was afraid of Castro. He stopped the CIA attempts to assassinate Castro that the Kennedys were reportedly behind. LHO liked some of JFK’s actions on civil rights, etc. But it appears to me that LHO was squarely against JFK’s policies regarding the ongoing actions designed to destabilize the Castro regime.

The BOP and Cuban Missile crisis were a big deal. If Oswald didn't hate JFK after those well documented confrontations between the US and Cuba, what in 1963 could've changed his mind? And there's no evidence that his opinion of Kennedy changed. 

LBJ was a bigger anti-Communist hawk than JFK. He also favored escalation in Vietnam while JFK resisted.

So with that in mind, I don't see how Oswald might've concluded that eliminating JFK would change US policy towards Cuba.

Per Det. Will Fritz, Oswald acknowledged during his interrogation that he didn't think LBJ's policies would be different from Kennedy's.

As you mentioned, Oswald was a strong supporter of the Civil Rights Movement. I think that, not Cuba, is what fueled Oswald's hatred of Gen. Edwin Walker who led violent demonstrations again Integration...

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2020, 06:28:12 PM »
The BOP and Cuban Missile crisis were a big deal. If Oswald didn't hate JFK after those well documented confrontations between the US and Cuba, what in 1963 could've changed his mind? And there's no evidence that his opinion of Kennedy changed. 

LBJ was a bigger anti-Communist hawk than JFK. He also favored escalation in Vietnam while JFK resisted.

So with that in mind, I don't see how Oswald might've concluded that eliminating JFK would change US policy towards Cuba.

Per Det. Will Fritz, Oswald acknowledged during his interrogation that he didn't think LBJ's policies would be different from Kennedy's.

As you mentioned, Oswald was a strong supporter of the Civil Rights Movement. I think that, not Cuba, is what fueled Oswald's hatred of Gen. Edwin Walker who led violent demonstrations again Integration...

The bay of pigs fiasco and the Cuban missile crisis both ended up with JFK resisting the U.S. military’s desires to attack Cuba. Nothing much for LHO to get terribly upset with JFK about in either instance. Some of us believe that the assassination of JFK is ample evidence that LHO’s opinion of JFK changed.

Vietnam was a separate conflict. Although Castro did try to support the communists there.

LHO had no way of knowing for sure what might happen between the United States and Cuba after the assassination. But I cannot imagine that he really thought that nothing would change. That is what he could be expected to say to the police however. After all they were charging him with the assassination. And he wasn’t going to say anything that might tend to incriminate himself. At least not until he had an attorney to represent him. However, the fact is that the U.S. did back off the effort to destabilize Cuba.


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2020, 07:14:31 PM »
The bay of pigs fiasco and the Cuban missile crisis both ended up with JFK resisting the U.S. military’s desires to attack Cuba. Nothing much for LHO to get terribly upset with JFK about in either instance. Some of us believe that the assassination of JFK is ample evidence that LHO’s opinion of JFK changed.

You're using circular logic.

Even if we assume Oswald, alone or as part of a conspiracy, did it, we don't know what his motive might've been.

There's no evidence that he disliked Kennedy personally. If he did it, he had other motives.
 

Vietnam was a separate conflict. Although Castro did try to support the communists there.

I agree but I was noting that LBJ was more of a hawk on stopping Communism in Asia, than Kennedy. It's one of the reasons Eisenhower liked LBJ and disliked JFK.

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/an-exceptional-alliance-johnson-eisenhower-and-the-vietnam-war

LHO had no way of knowing for sure what might happen between the United States and Cuba after the assassination. But I cannot imagine that he really thought that nothing would change. That is what he could be expected to say to the police however. After all they were charging him with the assassination. And he wasn’t going to say anything that might tend to incriminate himself. At least not until he had an attorney to represent him. However, the fact is that the U.S. did back off the effort to destabilize Cuba.

No one could've predicted that LBJ would decide not to retaliate against Cuba despite his suspicion that Oswald was part of a Communist conspiracy. Conventional wisdom is that a State actor involved in the murder of a US President would be treated a an act of war.

LBJ later admitted that he believed there was a conspiracy despite his endorsement of the Warren Report.

Oswald had an above average awareness of Foreign Policy. I doubt he figured that LBJ would be better on Cuba than Kennedy.


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2020, 07:34:29 PM »
The BOP and Cuban Missile crisis were a big deal. If Oswald didn't hate JFK after those well documented confrontations between the US and Cuba, what in 1963 could've changed his mind? And there's no evidence that his opinion of Kennedy changed. 

LBJ was a bigger anti-Communist hawk than JFK. He also favored escalation in Vietnam while JFK resisted.

So with that in mind, I don't see how Oswald might've concluded that eliminating JFK would change US policy towards Cuba.

Per Det. Will Fritz, Oswald acknowledged during his interrogation that he didn't think LBJ's policies would be different from Kennedy's.

As you mentioned, Oswald was a strong supporter of the Civil Rights Movement. I think that, not Cuba, is what fueled Oswald's hatred of Gen. Edwin Walker who led violent demonstrations again Integration...

Oswald was a malcontent with a screw loose.  You can't find tidy motives for his actions.  His lack of apparent animosity regarding JFK is not relevant.  He didn't assassinate JFK.  He assassinated the President of the United States.  He did so primarily because the opportunity fell right into his lap.  Unlike most assassins who have to venture out in search of their targets who they have to pick from anyone else in the world, JFK's motorcade came right past Oswald's place of work.  His action was a giant middle finger to the American society that he detested.  This was Oswald's way to be someone important.  In his fantasy world, he was waking every one up with a revolutionary act.  In reality, he was just an angry, pathetic guy.  His actions have political elements but are mostly driven by subjective psychological factors of Oswald himself.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Getting inside Oswalds mind - his library books
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2020, 07:44:55 PM »
You're using circular logic.

Even if we assume Oswald, alone or as part of a conspiracy, did it, we don't know what his motive might've been.

There's no evidence that he disliked Kennedy personally. If he did it, he had other motives.
 

I agree but I was noting that LBJ was more of a hawk on stopping Communism in Asia, than Kennedy. It's one of the reasons Eisenhower liked LBJ and disliked JFK.

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/an-exceptional-alliance-johnson-eisenhower-and-the-vietnam-war

No one could've predicted that LBJ would decide not to retaliate against Cuba despite his suspicion that Oswald was part of a Communist conspiracy. Conventional wisdom is that a State actor involved in the murder of a US President would be treated a an act of war.

LBJ later admitted that he believed there was a conspiracy despite his endorsement of the Warren Report.

Oswald had an above average awareness of Foreign Policy. I doubt he figured that LBJ would be better on Cuba than Kennedy.


It’s possible that LHO admired JFK for some of his qualities. But one also should consider that the extreme wealth of the Kennedy clan is something that LHO abhorred about the capitalist system. He felt that the wealthy took advantage of the not-so-wealthy to become even more wealthy. Plenty of those feelings still around these days.

We will never know for sure what he was thinking. At the very least it can be said that Castro was LHO’s hero. And that he wanted to help Castro’s cause. The publicity in the papers and other media surrounding the war of words between Castro and JFK would have inflamed LHO. As would the book The Shark and the Sardines. Whether or not that was enough to cause the assassination is a matter of opinion. The motorcade passing right by his workplace apparently just coincidentally was too tempting for him in that situation.