The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

Above is a crop from Bronson with various witnesses (poorly) labelled.
The pic is lifted from Pat Speer's site where he equates this pic to approximately z225
The limo has just passed Templin, Brandt and Newman.
It is just passing Burney and Dishong.
It is almost in front of the Chisms
Charles Brehm is further down the road.

Although witness statements are often contradictory and unreliable when it comes to certain details, there is surely a basic fact the people who were stood on both sides of Elm Street could be sure of - whether or not the limo had passed their position when they heard the first shot.
These are the witness statements from right to left.

John Templin -  I would say, thirty feet past us, we heard what I personally thought was a motorcycle backfire, and I... the president kind of threw his shoulders up a little bit and kind of laid his head back on the back of the seat,

Ernest Brandt - And of course, all I could see above the back seat was his shoulders, his neck, and head…I think the limousine was probably about 60 or 70 feet past us, three or four seconds I guess from the time. It wasn't moving real slow but yet not real fast either, y'know. And--60 or 70 feet past us, then BAM!

Jean Newman - The motorcade had just passed me when I heard something that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report...

Peggy Burney -  The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot.

June Dishong - His arm in the air waving… He drops his arm as they go by, possibly 20 feet. Suddenly--a sound. Gun shots?

Faye Chism - “As the President was coming through, I heard this first shot,

John Chism - And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved to the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot,

Charles Brehm - I happened to be about fifteen feet away from the President when the first shot hit him...the first shot rang out and I was positive when I saw the look on his face and saw him grab his chest and saw the reaction of his wife that he had been shot.

Templin, Brandt, Newman, Burney and Dishong all state that the limo had just passed them when the first shot sounded.
Brehm states he was looking at JFK's face after the first shot, the limo had not yet reached his position.

The Bronson pic above seems to have pretty much captured the position of the limo as described by the witnesses standing close by on Elm Street. Below is a stripped down version of Dom Roberdeau's map which gives an approximate idea of where the limo was in terms of Z-frames:




Further evidence that the first shot occurred at z222/z223

[Jack Nessan]

Above is a crop from Bronson with various witnesses (poorly) labelled.
The pic is lifted from Pat Speer's site where he equates this pic to approximately z225
The limo has just passed Templin, Brandt and Newman.
It is just passing Burney and Dishong.
It is almost in front of the Chisms
Charles Brehm is further down the road.

Although witness statements are often contradictory and unreliable when it comes to certain details, there is surely a basic fact the people who were stood on both sides of Elm Street could be sure of - whether or not the limo had passed their position when they heard the first shot.
These are the witness statements from right to left.

John Templin -  I would say, thirty feet past us, we heard what I personally thought was a motorcycle backfire, and I... the president kind of threw his shoulders up a little bit and kind of laid his head back on the back of the seat,

Ernest Brandt - And of course, all I could see above the back seat was his shoulders, his neck, and head…I think the limousine was probably about 60 or 70 feet past us, three or four seconds I guess from the time. It wasn't moving real slow but yet not real fast either, y'know. And--60 or 70 feet past us, then BAM!

Jean Newman - The motorcade had just passed me when I heard something that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report...

Peggy Burney -  The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot.

June Dishong - His arm in the air waving… He drops his arm as they go by, possibly 20 feet. Suddenly--a sound. Gun shots?

Faye Chism - “As the President was coming through, I heard this first shot,

John Chism - And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved to the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot,

Charles Brehm - I happened to be about fifteen feet away from the President when the first shot hit him...the first shot rang out and I was positive when I saw the look on his face and saw him grab his chest and saw the reaction of his wife that he had been shot.

Templin, Brandt, Newman, Burney and Dishong all state that the limo had just passed them when the first shot sounded.
Brehm states he was looking at JFK's face after the first shot, the limo had not yet reached his position.

The Bronson pic above seems to have pretty much captured the position of the limo as described by the witnesses standing close by on Elm Street. Below is a stripped down version of Dom Roberdeau's map which gives an approximate idea of where the limo was in terms of Z-frames:




Further evidence that the first shot occurred at z222/z223

Before John Chism would not be Z222. He is standing in front of the Stemmons sign. Z218 or earlier by Zapruder film count.

[Andrew Mason]

(and surely you meant before z225 rather than z255).

??
Read the post.
z207 shows the three agents not showing any sign of the reactions they described regarding the first shot.

Ready said he turned to his right. He lifted his right hand from the right handhold at z199 and began turning right. Landis, behind him, has turned his head a few times before z207. Hickey has as well. How quickly are you expecting agents to react? If the shot sound was before z202 why would you expect dramatic changes by z207?  By z254-255 when Altgens #6 was exposed, that is 3 seconds after the “just before z202” shot, but we can’t really tell when those changes began.

You don’t mention Linda Willis or Hugh Betzner or occupants of the VP security car who put the first shot just before they completed the full 120 degree turn onto Elm.

[John Corbett]

Ready said he turned to his right. He lifted his right hand from the right handhold at z199 and began turning right. Landis, behind him, has turned his head a few times before z207. Hickey has as well. How quickly are you expecting agents to react? If the shot sound was before z202 why would you expect dramatic changes by z207?  By z254-255 when Altgens #6 was exposed, that is 3 seconds after the “just before z202” shot, but we can’t really tell when those changes began.

You don’t mention Linda Willis or Hugh Betzner or occupants of the VP security car who put the first shot just before they completed the full 120 degree turn onto Elm.

Like a broken record from the days of vinyl. More so-and-so-said crapola that doesn't prove squat.

[Andrew Mason]

Like a broken record from the days of vinyl. More so-and-so-said crapola that doesn't prove squat.

The issue is whether there is proof that the first shot was after z207. I thought we both agreed that the first shot occurred before z207.

[John Corbett]

The issue is whether there is proof that the first shot was after z207. I thought we both agreed that the first shot occurred before z207.

The issue is that you place so much faith in eye and earwitnesses as if they are a source of empirical evidence.