The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

So why doesn’t Clint Hill react to a Z150 of Z170 or a Z190 1sr shot?  John C .  argues the 1st shot missed JFK. OK so maybe since Clint  was keeping his eye on JFK and saw no movement of JFK.But  How Ciint and the other SS agents don’t hear this loud report of the rifle  fire seems improbable imo.

Or If a  Z190 shot which hits  JFK there would be some neurological response in just a 1/2 sec or less if Dans posted info is valid which would cause JFK to move earlier and thus Clint Hill seeing that earlier movement should have reacted quicker and in Altgens Z255 photo ,  One of Hills feet should be more off the running board at least.

A good question.  It is less of an issue if the first shot was around z190, which is where I suggest the evidence puts it.  In that case, three seconds before showing a reaction and deciding to jump is not an especially long time.  He first had to decide if he could make it to the President's car.  When the car started slowing down a few seconds before the head shot that may have been what prompted him to jump.

[John Corbett]

So why doesn’t Clint Hill react to a Z150 of Z170 or a Z190 1sr shot?  John C .  argues the 1st shot missed JFK. OK so maybe since Clint  was keeping his eye on JFK and saw no movement of JFK.But  How Ciint and the other SS agents don’t hear this loud report of the rifle  fire seems improbable imo.

I don't know why Clint Hill didn't hear the first shot but he only remembers hearing two so there must have been one he didn't recognize as a gun shot. Jackie only heard two and JFK did not seem to react to the shot that JBC reacted two. Perhaps it was the roar of the four escort motorcycles who were in close proximity to all three of them. They would have been accelerating coming out of the sharp turn, but there's no way to know why some heard the first shot and others didn't.

Or If a  Z190 shot which hits  JFK there would be some neurological response in just a 1/2 sec or less if Dans posted info is valid which would cause JFK to move earlier and thus Clint Hill seeing that earlier movement should have reacted quicker and in Altgens Z255 photo ,  One of Hills feet should be more off the running board at least.

I estimate Hill would have heard the second shot about Z223 which is a very clear frame with no blurring. It doesn't look to me as if he is looking directly at JFK at that point. Prior to hearing the shot, I would think his focus would have been on the few spectators to the left of the limo. There would have been less than 2 seconds from the time he heard the second shot until Altgens took the photo. He would have had to turn to look at JFK, seen that he had been hit, and then reacted. I think less than two seconds for that process seems reasonable to me.

[Jarrett Smith]

I estimate Hill would have heard the second shot about Z223 which is a very clear frame with no blurring. It doesn't look to me as if he is looking directly at JFK at that point. Prior to hearing the shot, I would think his focus would have been on the few spectators to the left of the limo. There would have been less than 2 seconds from the time he heard the second shot until Altgens took the photo. He would have had to turn to look at JFK, seen that he had been hit, and then reacted. I think less than two seconds for that process seems reasonable to me.

Mr. HILL. Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left.
Mr. SPECTER. Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us?
Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?
Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.

Clint Hill did not jump off the follow up car until after Z-313 and almost reached the car at Z-331 the exact time Zapruder's film blurred.  Bang......bang..bang?

Largest Z313-Z318
2nd Largest Z331-Z334

[Dan O'meara]

So why doesn’t Clint Hill react to a Z150 of Z170 or a Z190 1sr shot?  John C .  argues the 1st shot missed JFK. OK so maybe since Clint  was keeping his eye on JFK and saw no movement of JFK.But  How Ciint and the other SS agents don’t hear this loud report of the rifle  fire seems improbable imo.

Or If a  Z190 shot which hits  JFK there would be some neurological response in just a 1/2 sec or less if Dans posted info is valid which would cause JFK to move earlier and thus Clint Hill seeing that earlier movement should have reacted quicker and in Altgens Z255 photo ,  One of Hills feet should be more off the running board at least.

Clint Hill actually sees JFK "grab at himself" after the first shot.
He saw the moment JFK's arms flew up and he slumped to the left.
In the "When Was JFK Hit?" thread I demonstrated that the first moment we see the beginnings of this reaction in the Z-film is z225.
It is a neuromuscular/reflex reaction to a shot passing through him at z222/223.
Altgens 6 shows Hill apparently looking directly at JFK as he begins to slump to the left. This picture is taken about one and three quarter seconds after the first shot. In three seconds from this moment JFK will be hit in the head as Hill tries to get onto the limo.

Hill is fully aware of the first shot and JFK being hit by it (the idea that Hill and all the other Secret Service agents on board just ignore a missed first shot is too silly to contemplate).
He is about to react to it.
So, let's forget about first shots at z160 or earlier because we would have to believe that Hill (in Altgens 6) stood there gawking at JFK for over five seconds at least.
Even in Andrew's scenario of z190, Hill stands there for over three and a half seconds and still shows no sign of reacting.
It's an eternity in such an intense situation.
When shots are fired people react very quickly.




Landis, Hickey and Ready have all spun around to their right and rear as a result of the first shot, just as they reported doing so.
Hill is staring at JFK who is reacting to being shot.
Was the first shot 3.5 seconds before this pic was taken, or 1.75 seconds?

[John Corbett]

Clint Hill actually sees JFK "grab at himself" after the first shot.
He saw the moment JFK's arms flew up and he slumped to the left.
In the "When Was JFK Hit?" thread I demonstrated that the first moment we see the beginnings of this reaction in the Z-film is z225.
It is a neuromuscular/reflex reaction to a shot passing through him at z222/223.
Altgens 6 shows Hill apparently looking directly at JFK as he begins to slump to the left. This picture is taken about one and three quarter seconds after the first shot. In three seconds from this moment JFK will be hit in the head as Hill tries to get onto the limo.

Hill is fully aware of the first shot and JFK being hit by it (the idea that Hill and all the other Secret Service agents on board just ignore a missed first shot is too silly to contemplate).
He is about to react to it.
So, let's forget about first shots at z160 or earlier because we would have to believe that Hill (in Altgens 6) stood there gawking at JFK for over five seconds at least.
Even in Andrew's scenario of z190, Hill stands there for over three and a half seconds and still shows no sign of reacting.
It's an eternity in such an intense situation.
When shots are fired people react very quickly.




Landis, Hickey and Ready have all spun around to their right and rear as a result of the first shot, just as they reported doing so.
Hill is staring at JFK who is reacting to being shot.
Was the first shot 3.5 seconds before this pic was taken, or 1.75 seconds?

How do you explain JBC hearing a shot and turning to look over his right shoulder, as we see him do starting at Z164, and then about 3 seconds later get hit by the single bullet if he did not hear an earlier missed shot.

[Jarrett Smith]

How do you explain JBC hearing a shot and turning to look over his right shoulder, as we see him do starting at Z164, and then about 3 seconds later get hit by the single bullet if he did not hear an earlier missed shot.

Exactly John.

[Andrew Mason]

Even in Andrew's scenario of z190, Hill stands there for over three and a half seconds and still shows no sign of reacting.
It's an eternity in such an intense situation.
When shots are fired people react very quickly.




Landis, Hickey and Ready have all spun around to their right and rear as a result of the first shot, just as they reported doing so.

Ready said he immediately turned to his right in response to the first shot. He started his turn to the right before z206. He had to release his right hand from the hand-hold first. He did that by z199.

Hill is staring at JFK who is reacting to being shot.
Was the first shot 3.5 seconds before this pic was taken, or 1.75 seconds?

He obviously was focused on what was happening in the President’s car. Hill was responsible for Jackie.  So his reaction was to contemplate what he should do. For the first two seconds after z190 JFK is just beginning to react by moving left. It becomes obvious only from z226.  So less than two seconds to figure that out is not excessive.