The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

In Either scenario, a 3rd shot fired after Z313 is plausible.

Plausible - if it was not for the mountain of evidence that the head shot was the last shot: All occupants of the limo and Secret service car, Altgens, Gayle and Bill Newman, Zapruder.

2.3 seconds after z313 is z345. Clint Hill had reached the car by z345.  One might wonder why anyone would try to shoot with JFK in this position:



Besides, it also makes no sense that the shooter would take another shot after seeing the results of the head shot.

[Zeon Mason]

Plausible - if it was not for the mountain of evidence that the head shot was the last shot: All occupants of the limo and Secret service car, Altgens, Gayle and Bill Newman, Zapruder.

2.3 seconds after z313 is z345. Clint Hill had reached the car by z345.  One might wonder why anyone would try to shoot with JFK in this position:



Besides, it also makes no sense that the shooter would take another shot after seeing the results of the head shot.

So you prefer your 1st shot  at Z190 , then 4 secs later a shot at Z270, then 2.5 secs later Z313, where in only 2.5 secs the shooter hits Z313 the smallest target still moving (at 8mph)?   Is it even possible  ? since no CBS trial shooter ever managed to hit the head after only 2.5 secs from hitting the moving full upper body silhouette. No one else as far as I remember had ever accomplished that quick of an ejection of shell and chamber next round and was able to aim and fire and hit at a moving small 8” diameter target even if stationary let alone moving ar 8mph.

[Dan O'meara]

Plausible - if it was not for the mountain of evidence that the head shot was the last shot: All occupants of the limo and Secret service car, Altgens, Gayle and Bill Newman, Zapruder.

2.3 seconds after z313 is z345. Clint Hill had reached the car by z345.  One might wonder why anyone would try to shoot with JFK in this position:



Besides, it also makes no sense that the shooter would take another shot after seeing the results of the head shot.

The "mountain of evidence" you refer to is only in your mind.
There is contradictory evidence regarding when the last shot was.
The arguments you and I have had over this issue are recorded in this thread and don't need to be repeated.

[Dan O'meara]

So you prefer your 1st shot  at Z190 , then 4 secs later a shot at Z270, then 2.5 secs later Z313, where in only 2.5 secs the shooter hits Z313 the smallest target still moving (at 8mph)?   Is it even possible  ? since no CBS trial shooter ever managed to hit the head after only 2.5 secs from hitting the moving full upper body silhouette. No one else as far as I remember had ever accomplished that quick of an ejection of shell and chamber next round and was able to aim and fire and hit at a moving small 8” diameter target even if stationary let alone moving ar 8mph.

Andrew has painted himself in to a corner by fully committing to z312/313 as being the final shot of the three, clearly audible shots reported by over 160 witnesses.
JFK's reaction to being shot through the throat (and Brachial Plexus) is for his hands to fly upwards, towards his chin, at an incredible speed. It is clearly a neuromuscular/reflex reaction.
This indicates he was shot milliseconds before this movement.
The first reliable visible signs of this movement are seen in z225, so the shot passed through JFK only 2 or 3 Z-frames before this (z222/223).
The problem for Andrew is that there is a shade less than 5 seconds between z222/223 and z312/313.
He believes there was a significant gap between the first and second shots (and that the second and third shots were close together) - shot, pause, shot, shot.
This is impossible if you accept that the head shot was the last shot. There would be no time for a pause between the first two shots.

How does he overcome this problem?
By using the worst methodology possible.
He fixes the last shot at z312/313 then uses the time it takes to get off a shot with the MC (around 2.5 seconds ish) and calculates his way backwards from z312/313.
He then has his Z-frames (first shot z190, second shot z272, third shot z312/313)
After he has got his Z-frames he then, and only then, looks for evidence to support his calculations!!

He doesn't use the evidence to reach a conclusion.
He already has his conclusion and then cherry-picks evidence to support this conclusion.

It is a doomed method that led to a doomed theory.
However, this has not stopped him from constantly promoting this dead theory. It is his creation, after all.

[John Corbett]

Andrew has painted himself in to a corner by fully committing to z312/313 as being the final shot of the three, clearly audible shots reported by over 160 witnesses.
JFK's reaction to being shot through the throat (and Brachial Plexus) is for his hands to fly upwards, towards his chin, at an incredible speed. It is clearly a neuromuscular/reflex reaction.
This indicates he was shot milliseconds before this movement.
The first reliable visible signs of this movement are seen in z225, so the shot passed through JFK only 2 or 3 Z-frames before this (z222/223).
The problem for Andrew is that there is a shade less than 5 seconds between z222/223 and z312/313.
He believes there was a significant gap between the first and second shots (and that the second and third shots were close together) - shot, pause, shot, shot.
This is impossible if you accept that the head shot was the last shot. There would be no time for a pause between the first two shots.

How does he overcome this problem?
By using the worst methodology possible.
He fixes the last shot at z312/313 then uses the time it takes to get off a shot with the MC (around 2.5 seconds ish) and calculates his way backwards from z312/313.
He then has his Z-frames (first shot z190, second shot z272, third shot z312/313)
After he has got his Z-frames he then, and only then, looks for evidence to support his calculations!!

He doesn't use the evidence to reach a conclusion.
He already has his conclusion and then cherry-picks evidence to support this conclusion.

It is a doomed method that led to a doomed theory.
However, this has not stopped him from constantly promoting this dead theory. It is his creation, after all.

Yes it is. He was peddling it on John McAdams' forum as far back as 2008 when I joined it and probably before that. It doesn't matter how many times or how many ways people have pointed out the impossibility of his pet theory, he will dream up some cockamamie excuse to cling to it. He seems to have an undying pride of authorship of it although I have no idea why.

[Andrew Mason]

So you prefer your 1st shot  at Z190 , then 4 secs later a shot at Z270, then 2.5 secs later Z313, where in only 2.5 secs the shooter hits Z313 the smallest target still moving (at 8mph)?   Is it even possible  ? since no CBS trial shooter ever managed to hit the head after only 2.5 secs from hitting the moving full upper body silhouette. No one else as far as I remember had ever accomplished that quick of an ejection of shell and chamber next round and was able to aim and fire and hit at a moving small 8” diameter target even if stationary let alone moving ar 8mph.

The second shot missed JFK and struck JBC.  Then JFK moved farther to the right as the car moved along the slight curve of Elm St. No reaiming necessary just two quick shots holding the rifle with the boxes and strap.

The evidence of Hickey was that JFK ‘s hair on the right side flew up on the second shot. We can see that from z273-276:



If that was from the second bullet passing just to the right of his head, the subsequent slight movement of the car placed the same shot on his head 2.3 seconds later.

[John Corbett]

The second shot missed JFK and struck JBC.

Well, you're half right about that.

 Then JFK moved farther to the right as the car moved along the slight curve of Elm St. No reaiming necessary just two quick shots holding the rifle with the boxes and strap.

If doesn't matter whether JFK moved or not. Oswald would have to re-aim the rifle because the recoil of the rifle would have taken the rifle off target. He would have had to reacquire his target in the scope and place the cross hairs on his intended target before squeezing off the subsequent shots. 2.3 seconds between shots is the theoretical minimum required for an aimed shot. In reality, Oswald would likely have taken more time. 4-5 seconds between shots seems quite reasonable.