The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Question:

How is it that one of your precious witnesses, Ernest Brandt, described your "Z-222 first shot" as thunderous whereas others said it sounded like a firecracker or just another of those darn motorcycle backfires?

Answer:

The Z-222 shot was Oswald's second, and, unlike his missing-everything first shot, the muzzle of his short-rifle was outside the Sniper's Nest window.

-- Tom

 
Could your arguments be any weaker!
Rather than just make stuff up, why don't you do some actual research?
I've presented a mountain of evidence in the previous pages that make a mockery of your "z124" nonsense.
The study you based your opinion on has been debunked...by one of the authors of the study!!
None of this makes any difference to you because you're just a troll trying to derail anyone trying to have an honest debate.

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

When it comes to the following witnesses, so does yours.


Witnesses Placing the First Shot Earlier than Z-160:


1. Nellie Connally

In some statements, she says the shot came as they were turning, not after straightening out.

This places the sound before Z-155, possibly Z-140–150.

Other statements shift it slightly later, which is why she appears in both timing camps.


2. William Greer

In early accounts, Greer indicates the sound occurred during the turn.

Later testimony places it just after the turn.

The “during the turn” version implies earlier than Z-160.


3. Roy Kellerman

Described the first shot as coming almost immediately upon entering Elm Street.

Depending on how strictly one interprets “upon entering,” this can be Z-140–150 rather than Z-160.


4. Jean Hill

In early interviews, she indicates the sound came very quickly after the turn, almost as the car emerged from behind the Stemmons sign area.

Some reconstructions place her first-shot perception slightly earlier than Z-160.


5. Lee Bowers

Described the first report as occurring before any visible reaction or “disturbance.”

His vantage allows a pre-reaction placement, sometimes put before Z-160 in strict reconstructions.


-- Tom

Cite

"As Mrs. Connally recalls, just before they reached the triple underpass, the shot rang out," [11-22-63 press conference by Connally aide Julian Read ]

  “then I heard a loud, terrifying noise…I turned and looked toward the President just in time to see him clutch his neck and see him sink down in his seat." [(Notes written on 12-2-63, as reprinted in her book From Love Field, 2003]

[Tom Graves]

[...]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Not to mention your refusing to deal with those witnesses who either explicitly place the first shot near the turn (see above), or whose descriptions of reactions and timing anchor unmistakably to Z150 – Z170.

1. Governor John Connally

Heard the first shot as the car straightened after the turn

Before he was hit

One of the strongest anchors for Z-160 timing

2. Nellie Connally

“Just after the turn” / “as we straightened out”

First shot clearly precedes her husband’s injury

3. William Greer

First shot immediately after completing the turn onto Elm

Before slowing or turning around

4. Roy Kellerman

First shot as limousine came onto Elm

Distinguished from later shots by spacing and reaction

5. Mary Moorman

Heard a shot before seeing the President’s visible distress

Her Polaroid timing places her auditory perception near Z-160

6. Jean Hill

Heard a shot almost immediately after the turn

Before any obvious head injury

7. James Tague

Heard the first shot while the limousine was still relatively close to the turn

Before he was struck by debris (associated with later shot)

8. Lee Bowers

First loud report occurred early, before “commotion”

His tower vantage gives strong spatial/timing context

9. Marrion Baker

Heard first shot as motorcade passed the Depository area

Before running inside


-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Not to mention your refusing to deal with those witnesses who either explicitly place the first shot near the turn (see above), or their descriptions of reactions and timing anchor unmistakably to Z150 – Z170.

1. Governor John Connally

Heard the first shot as the car straightened after the turn

Before he was hit

One of the strongest anchors for Z-160 timing

2. Nellie Connally

“Just after the turn” / “as we straightened out”

First shot clearly precedes her husband’s injury

3. William Greer

First shot immediately after completing the turn onto Elm

Before slowing or turning around

4. Roy Kellerman

First shot as limousine came onto Elm

Distinguished from later shots by spacing and reaction

5. Mary Moorman

Heard a shot before seeing the President’s visible distress

Her Polaroid timing places her auditory perception near Z-160

6. Jean Hill

Heard a shot almost immediately after the turn

Before any obvious head injury

7. James Tague

Heard the first shot while the limousine was still relatively close to the turn

Before he was struck by debris (associated with later shot)

8. Lee Bowers

First loud report occurred early, before “commotion”

His tower vantage gives strong spatial/timing context

9. Marrion Baker

Heard first shot as motorcade passed the Depository area

Before running inside


-- Tom

NELLIE CONNALLY
"As Mrs. Connally recalls, just before they reached the triple underpass, the shot rang out," [11-22-63 press conference by Connally aide Julian Read ]

  “then I heard a loud, terrifying noise…I turned and looked toward the President just in time to see him clutch his neck and see him sink down in his seat." [(Notes written on 12-2-63, as reprinted in her book From Love Field, 2003]

Nellie is certain the first shot hit JFK and caused the reaction we see in the Z-film, indicating a shot at z222/z223
You've lost Nellie

KELLERMAN
“As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from the buildings, and where there was a sign on the side of the road which I don’t recall what it was and what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker" [11-29-63 report, 18H724-727)]

"Away from the buildings" and "out in the open".
As Speer points out - " His recollection of a sign being on the side of the road is possibly a reference to the Thornton Freeway sign, adjacent to Kennedy around Z-207, but also possibly a reference to the Stemmons Freeway sign, somewhat further down the road."
You've lost Kellerman

GREER
"The President’s automobile was almost past this building and I was looking at the overpass that we were about to pass under in case someone was on top of it, when I heard what I thought was the backfire of a motorcycle behind the President’s automobile" [(11-28-63 report, 18H 723]

Passing the end of the TSBD building and looking at the approaching underpass.
You've lost Greer

MOORMAN
"As President Kennedy was opposite me, I took a picture of him.  As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President Kennedy kind of slumped over." [11-22-63 statement to Dallas Sheriff’s Department, 19H487, 24H217]

Moorman states that the first shot occurred as the limo was opposite her and it caused JFK to slump over indicating a first shot as z222/z223.
You've lost Moorman.

HILL
(On what happened after the first shot) "Then the President looked up and just about that time he grabbed himself across the chest and looked like he was in pain. He fell toward Jackie across the seat." [ 11-22-63 article in the Dallas Times-Herald--as quoted in Hill's subsequent book, JFK: The Last Dissenting Witness. Note: this was presumably an Evening Edition]

Hill states that the first shot caused JFK to grab himself "across the chest" indicating a shot at z222/z223
You've lost Hill

Tague, Bowers and Baker were nowhere near the limo when the first shot rang out. Your interpretation of their statements is beyond desperate. You're clearly familiar with Speer's work (from which all the quotes I've used come from) so you must be familiar with the crushing amount of eye-witness testimony destroying your silly notions about an early first shot.
Why don't you follow the preponderance of evidence?
Why do you stick to your debunked and destroyed nonsense?
What's wrong with you?

[Tom Graves]

Tague, Bowers and Baker were nowhere near the limo when the first shot rang out.

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Who said they were?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Who said they were?

-- Tom

 
That's the best response you can muster?
Really?
What a waste of time.
Note how many of the witnesses you tried to cobble together to prop up your "z124" nonsense, actually support a first shot at z222/z223. Weird that, isn't it?

How can you still be peddling the debunked Scearce/Roselle study whilst ignoring the mountain of evidence Speer lays out destroying the notion of such an early shot?
Why do you prefer one over the other?
Is it just a troll thing?

[Tom Graves]

[...]

danny BOY o'meara, Vladimir Putin's favorite tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist.

[Charles Collins]

   There could have been More than 1 sound, More than 1 shot, being fired almost simultaneously. This might confuse people that are Not used to being around the sound of gunfire. The SS though? The fill-in guys like SA Hickey might get confused. But the regular SS? Nope! They are trained for this. Do you think a soldier could distinguish a shot fired from 6 stories high vs a shot fired at ground level? No question they can. This is why the testimony of ASAIC Kellerman and his description of a "flurry" of shells coming into the JFK Limo carried serious weight. This is why Specter directed the Kellerman WC QA. SS Agents were Not looking Upward. (L), (R), Back, but not a one of them was looking skyward as shots were being fired. And now that Max Holland is pushing an elapsed firing time of 11+ seconds for what he claims were 3 shots fired from the TSBD 6th Floor, the SS Agents had plenty of time to figure out where the shots were coming from and fix their attention/eyes Upward. That never happened.

The surprise ambush from above and behind was a very effective one then. Don’t you agree? However, there was at least one person who had it figured out. Here’s an image from Elsie Dorman’s film of what I believe is Howard Brennan’s squatting in the shadows of the wall he had been sitting on and looking up towards the sniper’s nest. This is just before LHO fired the third shot.