The First Shot

[Jerry Organ]

According to eyehealthweb.com:

A normal visual field is approximately 170 degrees around, with 100 degrees comprising the peripheral vision.

Regardless of whether Greer had extraordinary peripheral vision or not, he would recognize whether or not the southwest corner of the TSBD was behind him. And if it was he would have said the limo was just past the building instead of almost past.

Can't a person look at something as big as a building and get a sense of where it's at even after they look away?

I find it odd that Kellerman Greer has his head tilted away from the very front of the car for several seconds while you claim he would be looking with his eyes dead ahead anyway, supposedly fixated on the Underpass as if it's the only thing he need look at. Apparently Greer's eyes can't sweep back-and-forth so he can get a mental sense of both the Depository and the Underpass.

[Dan O'meara]

Kellerman's recollection of the first shot tallies quite well with Rufus Youngblood's:

Mr. SPECTER. Where, as best you can recollect, was the Vice President's car at the time the first shots. were heard? And would you take Commission Exhibit No. 354 and take the red pencil and mark as closely as you can the exact position on Commission Exhibit 354 of the Vice President's car with the capital letter "A" there?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. At the time of the first shot, did you say?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. It will be in this area here, I should think.
Mr. SPECTER. I want the Vice President's car at this time.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, this is what I am attempting to locate. It would be in the vicinity of this "X" right here, I do believe.



The X on the above diagram would be roughly at the spot marked z160 on Jerry's diagram. Quite a good correlation between the two testimonies.

[Charles Collins]

Can't a person look at something as big as a building and get a sense of where it's at even after they look away?

I find it odd that Kellerman has his head tilted away from the very front of the car for several seconds while you claim he would be looking with his eyes dead ahead anyway, supposedly fixated on the Underpass as if it's the only thing he need look at. Apparently Greer's eyes can't sweep back-and-forth so he can get a mental sense of both the Depository and the Underpass.

Jerry, they had just rounded a sharp turn onto Elm Street and were negotiating additional curves. It is instinctive for a driver's eyes to look in the direction that he intends to steer the car regardless of which direction the car is actually headed at the moment. (They actually made some cars, long ago, with headlights that turned with the motion of the steering wheel (so the driver could see the area where he intended to go better at night). I would fully expect Greer to be looking at the road ahead in the direction of where he intended to go. That was his duty as a driver. And that is what he said he was looking at when he heard the first shot. We are arguing nitpicking points. He said he was looking for potential threats on the overpass. I believe him.

[Bill Chapman]

Thanks for updating me about my own name Bill but the gap is necessary. The O' is an indicator meaning something along the lines of "Belonging to the tribe/clan of". The tribe/clan in my name is Meara (an Anglicised version of the Gaelic original). They are two completely separate entities, therefore the gap.

I'm talking about the readability aspect. Nobody wants to encounter speed bumps, either on the road or on the page. I contend that your meaning comes across without the gap. After all, we're not reading from ancient scrolls here. We already know that o' means 'of'.

[Dan O'meara]

I'm talking about the readability aspect. Nobody wants to encounter speed bumps, either on the road or on the page. I contend that your meaning comes across without the gap. After all, we're not reading from ancient scrolls here. We already know that o' means 'of'.

Well Mr BillChapman, I would contend that all names retain their meaning with the correct use of capital letters but we would be getting into silly territory. The gap is part of my name, it has a function which, in and of itself, makes it necessary.
I apologise for forcing you to leap over the obstacles my name presents. It certainly doesn't have the comforting solidity of your own.
As a footnote, many families drop the O' over time as it is just a signifier. It would not be uncommon to find a "Dan Meara", particularly in Ireland. A surname like Ryan would've most probably started life as O' Ryan (in Gaelic though).

Thoughts on the thread please Bill 

[Andrew Mason]

Thanks for the link to the interview. I had seen it a while back but have learned a few things in the meantime. So it was good to revisit it again. I haven’t read “The Kennedy Detail” however it is now on the list of books that I want to read.

I do have a copy of Clint Hill’s book “Five Days in November” and have read it. A review of his chapter “The Shots” beginning on page 103 finds that he only describes two shots. No mention of a third shot, period. “Five Days in November” has a copyright dated 2013. The Gary Mack interview was done in 2010. It seems to me that if Clint wanted to write about the third shot (that he didn’t hear) this book would have been his best opportunity to set the record straight. He apparently chose to completely avoid mentioning the shot that he didn’t hear. That choice leads me to believe that he is (quite understandably) not so sure about when that shot occurred and where it went.

 Also, it appears to me that Gary Mack was trying to “put words in Clint’s mouth” and that Clint finally (and emphatically) said that he only heard two shots. Clint (as did JBC) apparently chose to agree with Mrs. Connally’s opinion that the second shot hit JBC. However, both of these men (JBC and Clint Hill) have stated that they didn’t actually hear that shot. Hmmm...

Gerald Blaine stated that both Emory Roberts and Sam Kinney saw all three shots hit their marks. However, a review of both of their original reports state otherwise. I would like to know where Gerald Blaine got his information regarding this claim...
 

Gerald Blaine's account is in the chapter titled "Six Seconds in Dallas".  He based his account in speaking to the SS agents afterward, not just their official statements.  He maintains that the second shot occurred as Clint Hill was running:

"As his feet propelled him toward the moving car, Clint Hill was so focused on reaching his target that he didn't even hear the second shot."

Despite the fact that Clint Hill recalled hearing only two shots, he also recalled that the first and last shots struck JFK.  As Blaine points out, while he was leaping off the running board and toward the President's car, his mind was very focused on what he was doing. If the second shot occurred then, since he did not see the immediate effects of the second shot, unlike the third, that may explain his lack of attention to shot #2.  It would be much more difficult to understand why he would not recall a shot before the first shot he did recall.

Sam Kinney heard three shots and said that the second shot occurred as Clint Hill jumped off and ran to the limo (Nov 22/63 statement, CE1024: 18 H 732):

"I glanced from the taillight of SS-100-X, at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left.  Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head . With this, simultaneously with the President's car, we stepped on the gas. I released the siren at that time. I did hear three shots but do not recall which shots were those that hit the President.

*At this time Clint Hill jumped off and ran to the President's car, jumped on the back, and laid out across the trunk in a prone position where he rode the entire trip to the hospital . *"

Although he did recall "hair flying from the right side" of the President's head, that is an odd way to describe the head shot, particularly when he says that he could not recall which shots hit the President.  That "hair flying" fits with what Hickey recalled: the hair on the right side of his head flew up but did not appear to hit him.  That hair flying up is seen in the zfilm from z273-76.

[Andrew Mason]

Kellerman's recollection of the first shot tallies quite well with Rufus Youngblood's:

Mr. SPECTER. Where, as best you can recollect, was the Vice President's car at the time the first shots. were heard? And would you take Commission Exhibit No. 354 and take the red pencil and mark as closely as you can the exact position on Commission Exhibit 354 of the Vice President's car with the capital letter "A" there?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. At the time of the first shot, did you say?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, sir.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. It will be in this area here, I should think.
Mr. SPECTER. I want the Vice President's car at this time.
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. Well, this is what I am attempting to locate. It would be in the vicinity of this "X" right here, I do believe.

The X on the above diagram would be roughly at the spot marked z160 on Jerry's diagram. Quite a good correlation between the two testimonies.

It certainly is not consistent with a first shot at z160 when the VP car is still in the intersection in the middle of the turn onto Elm St. 

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry, they had just rounded a sharp turn onto Elm Street and were negotiating additional curves. It is instinctive for a driver's eyes to look in the direction that he intends to steer the car regardless of which direction the car is actually headed at the moment. (They actually made some cars, long ago, with headlights that turned with the motion of the steering wheel (so the driver could see the area where he intended to go better at night). I would fully expect Greer to be looking at the road ahead in the direction of where he intended to go. That was his duty as a driver. And that is what he said he was looking at when he heard the first shot. We are arguing nitpicking points. He said he was looking for potential threats on the overpass. I believe him.

If Greer is strictly looking at the Underpass during the first shot, as you maintain, how is he able to gauge where the car is relative to the Depository? He must either have just glanced at the building or formed a mental picture of it's location. And if he can do that for the Z130s, why not for the Z150s-Z160s?

It doesn't seem like Greer was exclusively concentrating on the Underpass, that he may have been glancing around.

     Mr. SPECTER. When you were watching the overpass at that time,
          did you observe anything on the overpass?
     Mr. GREER. Not that I can remember now.
     Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe that there was no one present on the
          overpass?
     Mr. GREER. My recollection, there may have been a police officer up
          there. It is vague to me now everything that I had seen at that time.

When he was looking at the Underpass earlier, Greer didn't look well enough to recall there were many people on top of the Underpass.

Greer seems surer of the car's location relative to the SW corner of the Depository: "The President's automobile was almost past this building." That gets it further down Elm Street than you like.

The car is only midway along the Depository's South facade in the Z130s.