The First Shot

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Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2020, 09:12:25 PM »
That's way too cryptic for me.
Do you agree that looks like blood on Connally's back?
When?
Why are you trying to decode minutae on the z film, when the points of impact from the three shots were established for SS, FBI, etc., by Mr West ?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2020, 11:11:22 PM »
When?
Why are you trying to decode minutae on the z film, when the points of impact from the three shots were established for SS, FBI, etc., by Mr West ?
I'm not 'decoding minutae'. Please explain how Mr West knew the timing of the shots in order to establish the points of impact.

In terms trying to determine when the first shot occurred the testimony of Rufus Youngblood is of interest. The following excerpts are taken from his report (11/29/63):

"The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds were beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of the small crowd of bystanders on the sidewalk- some tall buildings- a downhill grade ahead where the street went under what appeared to be a railroad overpass. We were about two car lengths behind the Presidential follow-up car at this time.

I heard an explosion--I was not sure whether it was a firecracker, bomb, bullet, or other explosion. I looked at whatever I could quickly survey, and could not see anything which would indicate the origin of this noise. I noticed that the movements in the Presidential car were very abnormal and, at practically the same time, the movements in the Presidential follow-up car were abnormal. So I turned around and hit the Vice President on the shoulder and hollered, get down, and then looked around again and saw more of this movement, and so I proceeded to go to the back seat and get on top of him.
I then heard two more shots..." (my emphasis)

Youngblood states that after the first 'explosion' he looked around to find 'the origin of the noise'. When he turned back he noticed unnatural movement in the Presidential limo and it's follow-up car. Looking at the Z-film below, which runs to z207, there is no such abnormal movement:



So when does this 'abnormal' movement occur? Examination of Altgens 6 seems to answer this question. Obviously agents Hickey, Ready and Landis have now reacted and are looking "rear right", but looking closely at the Vice President's car reveals something quite interesting - Youngblood, sitting in the front passenger seat (left) has yet to react!:



'Ladybird' Johnson and Sen. Yarborough appear to be smiling away without a care in the world. If, as I am asserting, the first shot occurred at z223, this picture was taken between 1.5 to 2 seconds after that shot. The next shot, the infamous headshot, is about 3 seconds away (assuming Altgens 6 is z255). Youngblood begins his reaction to the first shot before the second shot, presumably at some point in the three seconds after Altgens 6.
From this it seems reasonable to assume that the 'abnormal' movement has just occurred in Altgens 6 (this is supported by the testimonies of Landis, Ready and Hickey). Youngblood is noticing this movement and is just about to sound his warning. It is also reasonable to assume from this evidence that the first shot is the one that causes JFK's hands to move to his throat as seen in Altgens 6.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 11:12:09 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2020, 11:26:43 PM »
Who’s TBC?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 11:36:55 PM »
Who’s TBC?
;D

My bad.
JBC - John Bowden Connally
not TBC - to be confirmed

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2020, 02:58:35 AM »
Another strong indication that JBC was shot at the same time as JFK comes from a detail in the WC testimonies of Jackie Kennedy and Connally himself:

"Mrs. KENNEDY. You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." (my emphasis)

"[CONNALLY] I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----" (my emphasis)

JBC is clear, immediately after being shot he said "Oh, no, no, no". He implies he says this and "My God, they are going to kill us all" before collapsing into Nellie's lap. I believe the clip below shows JBC calling out immediately after being shot:


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2020, 03:52:57 AM »
JBC has always been clear that he was hit and said "No no no" after he was turning back towards the front well after frame 223. Nellie said he was hit right AFTER saying "No no no". Here she is at 5:19.
Nellie always maintained  that JFK already had his hands to his throat when JBC did his turn around and before JBC was hit.
JBC said even after turning around he could not see JFK out of the corner of his eye. With JFK behind and slightly right tf JBC he should easily see him when his head turned only 90 degrees. The reason he couldn't see JFK could be because JFK was already leaning to his left.
JBC said he fell almost immediately back onto Nellie once shot but if he was hit at 223 he did a full turn around to look for JFK before falling back on Nellie.
 I think the clearest version of the events should come from Nellie as she was an observer that was never hit. Her description of seeing JFK raise his hands well before her husband was shot is very credible and matches JBC's version.
 
 

Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »
Rosemary Willis is seen running alongside the Presidential limousine in the Zapruder film and other assassination motion pictures. She is clearly visible in her white, hooded coat and a red skirt.

At circa Z-164-171 she starts to slow down, then she stops running and, simultaneous with her slowing/stopping, she slightly turns her level-facing head to end up looking towards the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository. Willis stated she stopped because she heard a loud noise that attracted her attention.

Immediately after President Kennedy is first hidden at frame 207 by the "Stemmons Freeway" traffic sign in the Zapruder film, Willis suddenly, and beginning at Z-214, snaps her head very rapidly 90 to 100 degrees westward (completely away from the Depository southeast corner) within 0.16 second to then face Abraham Zapruder and the grassy knoll by Z-217.

She told the HSCA in 1978 that she heard four loud noises and saw suspicious activity on the grassy knoll.