The First Shot

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Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1491 on: December 15, 2025, 05:49:16 PM »
Dear Sonderführer Storing,

As Roselle and Scearce pointed out in their 2020 article, a loud and unexpected sound that comes from behind you and over your head is the hardest to locate.

https://www.acsr.org/post/estimating-occult-timing-of-surprise-gunshot-sounds-in-silent-film-via-observed-start-of-human-vol?fbclid=IwAR12nBxuwJNQk5YVStu8jKxu-wnyIprRvzLSpJ7mLurtZpzj7DMU0LQeof8

Especially, one would think, in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza.

D'oh!

-- Tom
I am not sure why you think that Roselle and Scearce's speculations on how difficult it might be to recognize source direction of a gunshot sound are of any value.  They even admit that this comment was speculative.

The fact is that human brains rely on both ears to determine sound source. The brain detects time differences between the arrival of a sound wave at each ear to determine lateral position of the source.  Our ability to detect that a sound is coming from behind instead of the front is facilitated by the shape of our ears.  Here is the Wikipedia page on Sound Localization and here is a paper dealing with experiments on people that may be of interest.  I expect that ability to determine direction of sound is an important survival mechanism that has been highly conserved over millions of years.

The problem with detecting an actual source arises when there are nearby reflective surfaces that cause multiple wave fronts to arrive at the ears at slightly different times. Nevertheless, most witnesses, particularly those near the corner of Elm and Houston, had little difficulty in determining the direction of the source. For example, Dearie Cabell instinctively looked directly up from where she was facing (which was to her right toward the right front seat) and saw the rifle in the 6th floor window as they were already making the turn.  She said (7 H 486):

Mrs. CABELL.. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think it was the first window.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2025, 08:45:09 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1492 on: December 16, 2025, 12:33:17 AM »
I am not sure why you think that Roselle and Scearce's speculations on how difficult it might be to recognize source direction of a gunshot sound are of any value.  They even admit that this comment was speculative.

The fact is that human brains rely on both ears to determine sound source. The brain detects time differences between the arrival of a sound wave at each ear to determine lateral position of the source.  Our ability to detect that a sound is coming from behind instead of the front is facilitated by the shape of our ears.  Here is the Wikipedia page on Sound Localization and here is a paper dealing with experiments on people that may be of interest.  I expect that ability to determine direction of sound is an important survival mechanism that has been highly conserved over millions of years.

The problem with detecting an actual source arises when there are nearby reflective surfaces that cause multiple wave fronts to arrive at the ears at slightly different times. Nevertheless, most witnesses, particularly those near the corner of Elm and Houston, had little difficulty in determining the direction of the source. For example, Dearie Cabell instinctively looked directly up from where she was facing (which was to her right toward the right front seat) and saw the rifle in the 6th floor window as they were already making the turn.  She said (7 H 486):

Mrs. CABELL.. I heard the shot, and without having to turn my head, I jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you do that?
Mrs. CABELL. Because I heard the direction from which the shot came, and I just jerked my head up.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see?
Mrs. CABELL. I saw a projection out of one of those windows. Those windows on the sixth floor are in groups of twos.
Mr. HUBERT. In which window did you see the projection?
Mrs. CABELL. I have always been a little confused about that, but I think it was the first window.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3572034979706767&set=g.553546571932211

In five studies of earwitnesses' shot locations, the choice "other than the TSBD or the Grassy Knoll" ranged from about 5% in one study (by Stuard Galanor; 111 witnesses), 14% in two studies (by John McAdams, 112, and Josiah Thompson, 75) 26% (by the HSCA, 75), and 50% (in a study by Joel Grant, 104).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2025, 01:18:44 AM by Tom Graves »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1493 on: December 16, 2025, 01:24:53 AM »
  "...hardest to locate"? "....echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza"?  Those quotes defeat your personal observation/opinions regarding the direction that you believe eyewitnesses were looking. You just shot yourself in the foot, and you don't even know it.

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Some witnesses were evidently better situated in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza to be able to accurately locate the general direction of the first shot.

In Rosemary Willis' case, perhaps not only her general location but the fact that she was running -- and the direction she was running -- had something to do with it.

D'oh!

-- Tom
« Last Edit: December 16, 2025, 01:26:10 AM by Tom Graves »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1494 on: December 16, 2025, 03:00:05 AM »
Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Some witnesses were evidently better situated in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza to be able to accurately locate the general direction of the first shot.

In Rosemary Willis' case, perhaps not only her general location but the fact that she was running -- and the direction she was running -- had something to do with it.

D'oh!

-- Tom

  There's a huge difference between hearing something to your (R) or Behind you. That's ground level. How many eyewitnesses claimed they heard something from up high? Like 6 stories high?

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1495 on: December 16, 2025, 03:08:43 AM »
There's a huge difference between hearing something to your right or behind you. That's ground level. How many eyewitnesses claimed they heard something from up high? Like six stories high?

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Confusing post.

Not unlike the confusing echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza when former Marine sharpshooter Lee Harvey Oswald fired a (missing-everything) shot at "Z-124" and two much easier follow-up shaots at Z-222 and Z-313.

D'oh!

-- Tom

Online Jarrett Smith

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1496 on: December 17, 2025, 01:28:31 AM »
  There's a huge difference between hearing something to your (R) or Behind you. That's ground level. How many eyewitnesses claimed they heard something from up high? Like 6 stories high?

Higher up from ground level would have been best. S.M. Holland clearly heard the 4-shot sequence the acoustic panel discovered.



59:08
« Last Edit: December 17, 2025, 01:42:39 AM by Jarrett Smith »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1497 on: December 17, 2025, 03:58:56 PM »
Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Confusing post.

Not unlike the confusing echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza when former Marine sharpshooter Lee Harvey Oswald fired a (missing-everything) shot at "Z-124" and two much easier follow-up shaots at Z-222 and Z-313.

D'oh!

-- Tom
So that I am clear, you postulate a z-124 (.5 seconds before Zapruder started filming) based entirely on:
  • your interpretation of why you think people turned their heads when they did, and
  • despite all the witness evidence to the contrary, including evidence that explains why JFK and Jackie turned their heads to the right and waved for the last time, and
  • even though all the witnesses say that those turns were before the first horrible ear-shattering noise of the first shot.
If that is your theory, it needs to be presented with a touch of humility because it is not at all obviously one that fits the evidence.  Perhaps belittling those who disagree with your "theory" may not be the best approach to persuading others that you are right.