Poor Scholarship on Display: Larry Sturdivan's Book "The JFK Myths"

[John Iacoletti]

I agree. It is my belief that the alleged gunshots occurring on the tape at about the same time as the phrase “Hold everything secure” means the “gunshots” occur too late, about a minute too late, to have been real gunshots. I was just pointing out that Dr. Thomas believed that somehow, the phrase “Hold everything secure” was recorded on the wrong place. I disagree with Dr. Thomas’s claim which is, at best, unproven.

Can you quote Thomas claiming that the phrase “Hold everything secure” was recorded on the wrong place?

[Michael T. Griffith]

Quote from: Joe Elliott on September 15, 2020, 09:08:27 AM
I agree. It is my belief that the alleged gunshots occurring on the tape at about the same time as the phrase “Hold everything secure” means the “gunshots” occur too late, about a minute too late, to have been real gunshots. I was just pointing out that Dr. Thomas believed that somehow, the phrase “Hold everything secure” was recorded on the wrong place. I disagree with Dr. Thomas’s claim which is, at best, unproven.

Can you quote Thomas claiming that the phrase “Hold everything secure” was recorded on the wrong place?

Decker's "hold everything" transmission was recorded on the wrong place on Channel 1. It is crosstalk on Channel 1, and it occurs at a different time on Channel 1 than it occurs on the channel on which it was broadcast, i.e., Channel 2.

Decker's crosstalk is the most out-of-sync of all the crosstalk episodes on the dictabelt, yet critics ignore this fact and choose it as their time indicator.

The Fisher crosstalk is crucial because we know from several facts when it occurred on Channel 2 and because it occurs on Channel 1 just two seconds before the first gunshot impulse on the dictabelt. and just before Curry's "triple underpass" transmission and before the dispatcher's "12:30" time notation on Channel 2. 

Two seconds after the Fisher phrase on Channel 1, the gunfire sequence begins. Two seconds after the Fisher phrase on Channel 2, Curry broadcasts that he is "at the triple underpass." So the first gunshot sound was recorded at the same time Curry's car was near the underpass.

Furthermore, if we use the Bellah crosstalk to synchronize events on the two channels, the gunshot impulse patterns occur shortly before Curry's "to the hospital" transmission, and obviously Curry's transmission was broadcast very soon, a matter of seconds, after the assassination.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Doesn't work, Mike. The “Hold everything secure” cross talk Mr. Elliot is referring to, whether his belief or claim is true or false, is evidently about where on the timeline the shots appear, not whether shots were detected.

You really should avoid commenting until you have at least read the HSCA materials, which you clearly have not done. You know less than Elliott knows. I addressed the Decker "hold everything" crosstalk a few replies ago.

The Decker crosstalk only shows "where on the timeline the shots appear" if you ignore the Channel 2 dispatcher's 12:30 time notation, ignore Fisher's "I'll check" crosstalk, ignore Curry's "triple underpass" transmission, and ignore Curry's "to the hospital" transmission. Do you understand that?

I'll tell you what: Why don't you take a stab at explaining why we should pick Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as the time indicator instead of (1) the Channel 2 dispatcher's 12:30 time notation, (2) the Fisher crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes just *before* the 12:30 time notation, (3) Curry's "triple underpass" transmission, which we know also comes before the 12:30 time notation, and (4) Curry's "to the hospital" crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes 18 seconds after his "triple underpass" transmission?

You were not able to form a single meaningful sentence on your own dealing with that possible issue.

No, it's just that you were unable understand my plain English because you know next to nothing about the acoustical evidence. You only know what you've skimmed over on pro-WC websites. Because those sites do not explain the dictabelt-test firing correlations, you have no answer for those correlations.

Instead you crank out rehashed quotes you already posted a dozen times to cover up that you can't deal with the possible issue posted by Mr. Elliot.

This ignorant comment only shows that you know as little as Elliott knows on the subject, possibly less. You spew this nonsense to try to obscure the fact that you still have not addressed a single one of the correlations between the dictabelt shots and the test firing shots. I've asked going on a dozen times for you folks to address those correlations. The problem is you can't explain because your garbage pro-WC mythology sites don't explain them either.

By now you're fooling no one here with your science-babble, except maybe Mr. van de Wiel, and it's been fun exposing you.

You're talking like a teenager who's trying to one-up his dad with ignorant, rude polemic. If my arguments seem like "science-babble" to you, it's because you don't know enough to understand them, much less answer them.

So prove me wrong. Tell me why we should use Decker's crosstalk as the time indicator and ignore the dispatcher's time notation, Fisher's "I'll check" crosstalk, Curry's "triple underpass" crosstalk, and Curry's "to the hospital" transmission. Here's your chance. I'll be waiting.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Slow down, Mike.....

We can now quote Mike:

First you need to explain why "hold everything" was recorded on the wrong place if Channel-1 was recorded continuously.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna let you duck and dodge. I posed a straightforward question to you, and you ducked it. Not only does your statement avoid the question I posed, but it shows you have no business discussing the acoustical evidence because you obviously have not read a fraction of the relevant research. Your statement is nothing but a paraphrase of the debunked argument that the "hold everything" crosstalk proves that the suspect impulse patterns were recorded after the assassination.

So, I ask you, again: Why should we pick Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as the time indicator instead of (1) the Channel 2 dispatcher's 12:30 time notation, (2) Fisher's "I'll check" simultaneous crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes just *before* the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, (3) Curry's "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2, which we know also comes before the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, and (4) Curry's "to the hospital" crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes 18 seconds after his "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2?

I should have added a clause to that question, but I won't do so now. However, I'll mention it, just so you can have it mind for later: Why should we pick the Decker crosstalk as the time anchor when doing so misaligns *all* of the events on the two channels? As several scholars have noted, the Decker crosstalk is the most out-of-sync of all the crosstalk, yet the NRC and you NRC clones choose it as the time indicator--only because doing so puts the suspect impulse patterns after the assassination.

You see, the problem for you guys is that if we use the four abovementioned transmissions to identify the time when the suspect impulse patterns were recorded, instead of the single cherry-picked Decker transmission, we see that the gunshots were clearly, undeniably recorded during the assassination.

Just a reminder: Answer the question about why we should pick Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as the time indicator and not the four abovementioned transmissions.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Don't worry, I'm going nowhere.

Your question is based on the false premise that you can cherry-pick your cross talk, that's why you flunked right off the bat.

The question to be answered remains: Why is "hold everything" out-of-place if CH-1 was recorded in real time?

LOL! I should save your reply as an all-time howler.

YOU are the one cherry-picking your crosstalk! You are picking one lone crosstalk event, Decker's "hold everything" transmission, the most anomalous of all the crosstalk events, and you are ignoring the fact that (1) choosing Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as your anchor point throws *all* of the events on both channels out of alignment, (2) the Fisher and Curry crosstalk/transmissions and the dispatcher's 12:30 time notation not only synchronize with each other but show that the gunshot impulses were recorded during the assassination.

Soooo, I ask you, yet again: Why should we pick Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as the time indicator instead of (1) the Channel 2 dispatcher's 12:30 time notation, (2) Fisher's "I'll check" simultaneous crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes just *before* the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, (3) Curry's "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2, which we know also comes before the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, and (4) Curry's "to the hospital" crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes 18 seconds after his "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2?

I am not assuming that you cherry-pick anything. I am asking you to simply explain why you choose Decker's crosstalk as your time indicator over the four transmissions that synchronize with each other and that put the gunshot impulses during the assassination.

[Michael T. Griffith]

More Dr. Thomas fanboy babble, and your assumptions are entirely wrong.

You claim the Decker cross talk is "out-of-place".

Now you need to explain exactly what you mean by "out-of-place" and how it ended up there, Mr. Science.

Ok, only for the sake of others, I'm going to answer this, again. I say "again" because I have already addressed, several times, the issue of how Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk ended up on Channel 1 at a point just after the final gunshot on the dictabelt. This issue has been covered, like, a zillion times in the research. There are several ways that crosstalk can occur on dictabelt recordings, not just the DPD dictabelt: recorder stoppage, stylus displacement, over-recording during copying, and speed warps.

Do you really need me to explain what "out of place" means? Seriously? Well, ok. The "hold everything" crosstalk is out of place on Channel 1 because it occurs at a different time than it does on Channel 2; its broadcast time on Channel 2 is 60 seconds after Curry's "to the hospital" transmission, but its broadcast time on Channel 1 is over 60 seconds earlier.   

The gunshots occur on Channel 1. They occur right around 140 seconds after the 12:28 time notation on Channel 1, which means they occur at 12:30, just as they should.

As I've discussed several times, we can check this timing via the simultaneous Fisher crosstalk, Curry's "triple underpass" transmission, Curry's "to the hospital" transmission, and the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2. The first gunshot pattern occurs just after the Fisher crosstalk and Curry's "triple underpass" transmission, and both of those transmissions occur *before* the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2.

The fact that Fisher's crosstalk is simultaneous is important because it gives us a two-channel time correlation, and it comes just before the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2 and about 138 seconds after the 12:28 time notation on Channel 1. Furthermore, the dictabelt gunfire ends just before Curry's "to the hospital" transmission, which comes about 12 seconds after the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2. A perfect, powerful fit that shows clearly that the dictabelt gunfire was recorded during the assassination. 

So if you are going to continue to insist on using Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as your time indicator, you need to explain how you can do so in the face of the clear evidence that his crosstalk is totally unreliable as a time anchor, and in the face of the powerful synchronization between the gunfire, the Fisher crosstalk, the time notation on Channel 1, the time notation on Channel 2, and Curry's two transmissions.

The BBN scientists knew better than to use unreliable crosstalk events as time indicators. Instead, logically enough, they used the time notations on Channel 1 and Channel 2. The NRC panel members, not being acoustical experts, apparently did not realize they were committing an egregious error by using the most anomalous crosstalk event as their time indicator. (Or, perhaps they knew this was a bogus approach, but it was the only one that enabled them to claim that the gunfire impulses on the dictabelt were recorded after the assassination and thus "had to be" something other than gunfire.)

I have not even mentioned the Bellah crosstalk yet, which is another indicator that the dispatcher time notations are accurate and that the gunshots were recorded during the assassination.

Now, I ask you, yet again: Why should we pick Decker's "hold everything" crosstalk as the time indicator instead of (1) the Channel 2 dispatcher's 12:30 time notation, (2) Fisher's "I'll check" simultaneous crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes just *before* the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, (3) Curry's "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2, which we know also comes before the 12:30 time notation on Channel 2, and (4) Curry's "to the hospital" crosstalk on Channel 1, which we know comes 18 seconds after his "triple underpass" transmission on Channel 2?

[Gerry Down]

More Dr. Thomas fanboy babble, and your assumptions are entirely wrong.

You claim the Decker cross talk is "out-of-place".

Now you need to explain exactly what you mean by "out-of-place" and how it ended up there, Mr. Science.

Evidence can't be out of place. Its either in place or its not evidence.