Unsung Heroes

[John Tonkovich]

How many threads do we need on Johnny Brewer?

He is one of the "unsung heroes " (sic) who are not to be believed.

His compatriots are legion:
Ruth Paine.
Michael Paine.
Captain Westbrook.
Harry Holmes.
Will Fritz.
Agent Hosty.
Jack Ruby.
Wesley Frazier.
Agent Gerberling.
Patricia McMillan.

By no means am I saying those above were involved in the assassination. They were just willing participants in fingering Oswald, and helping push the official story.

[Joe Elliott]

According to CE1974, "code 2" means "Urgent - siren and red lights as needed".

Correct. So, Officer Sabastian might have the siren on, or not. At times, sirens can be heard on the Dictabelt recording. But not when Officer Sabastian was speaking. So, it appears that officer Sabastian elected to not use the sirens and so could have easily heard a news report over the radio, as he said.

I agree with Martin.  "reporting DOA" refers to the president.  He doesn't literally mean "on arrival at Parkland", he means they are reporting that the president has died.  This was before the official flash from Kilduff, but I just discovered a Wikipedia article that says that ABC radio reported an unconfirmed report at 1:25 CST that the president had died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_John_F._Kennedy_assassination#ABC

You can hear the audio of that here at 44:59:

I know the media was reporting that the president may have died long before 1:25 CST. There were reports of quoting a Secret Service agent (no doubt, Clint Hill) that the President was dead. But it was always stressed that these were unconfirmed reports and that no official announcement had been made.

In any case, we know Officer Sabastian mentioned the officer. And might possibility (but probably not, probably Officer Owens) also mentioned the President. Why should this be considered only talking about the death of the President. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to say that Officer Sabastian was only talking about the death of a police officer. Or at most the death of both a police officer and the President?

If you think they wouldn't use "DOA" in this fashion, consider the following exchange on police channel 2 at 1:30 (dispatcher time):

15 (Captain C.E. Talbert) Did you say he was DOA at Methodist?
Dispatcher Yes.
15 Have they released any condition on the President?
Dispatcher We understand he is DOA, too.

Yes. But this torpedoes one of Martin’s main points, that the report “NBC is reporting DOA. . . . That the officer?” could not be referring to Officer Tippit, because it was impossible, or at least unlikely, that they could have gotten that report from Methodist Hospital so soon. Someone, maybe a reporter, maybe a radio announcer, maybe Officer Sabastian himself, may have changed “dead” to “DOA”. Just as was done with President Kennedy.

A slightly garbled report, that the President was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of President. Any more than a slightly garbled report, that a police officer was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of a police officer.

[Joe Elliott]

According to CE1974, "code 2" means "Urgent - siren and red lights as needed".

Thanks John. I wasn't aware it was in the evidence.

The most interesting part of your post is that the first broadcast of the President having died was at 1.25, some 25 minutes after the doctors at Parkland had declared him dead.

Compare that to Tippit, who - if the official narrative and timeline are correct - was declared DOA at Methodist Hospital at 1.22, yet Joe Elliott would have us believe that no more than 3 minutes later Tippit's death was being broadcast on the radio, for Brewer (and Sabastian) to hear.

Yes. But as John Iacoletti pointed out, the police also talked about the President being DOA, even though he wasn’t.

Question 1:

If a report of the death of the President could be garbled into “the President was DOA”, why couldn’t something similar have happened regarding the report of a police officer being DOA?

I expect you will dodge this question.



Why would the media be so slow in reporting the death of the President but so fast in reporting the death of a police officer? Because it’s one thing to report a police officer was killed, and later be proven wrong. It’s another to report the death of the President, and later be proven wrong. That’s the sort of mistake that would define a career. If Dan Rather had made such a mistake, he would never have replaced Walter Cronkite.

We had very early reports on the death of a Secret Service agent at Dealey Plaza. Even though this had not been officially confirmed yet. Or had even happened. So, it is possible that there may have been early reports on the death of a police officer, based on nothing more than the police radio broadcasts which the media monitored. With those broadcasts alone, the media would have a lot more solid evidence about the death of a police officer then they did on the death of a Secret Service agent. And could be reporting this within minutes of the death of Officer Tippit.

If Joe Elliott's theory is correct some unknown reporter (who has never been identified or come forward) was at Methodist to hear about Tippit's death, call it in to his station and get it on the air in under 3 minutes, where it took busloads of reporters present at Parkland 25 minutes to get the report about the President's death on the air.

Elliott can argue all he wants about Sabastian waiting for traffic lights under a code 2, being 13 miles away from 400 Jefferson when he said on the radio that he was almost there and having a commercial radio station on in his cruiser while racing down the highway with sirens and light and/or even the person who transcribed the dictabelt recordings being confused, but the simple comparision above says it all....

The only broadcast there was, was at 1.25 and it was about Kennedy and that's what Sabastian somehow heard and asked the dispatcher about!

My theory about a reporter following an ambulance to Methodist Hospital was only mentioned as a possibility. An unlikely possibility, but a possibility. But this theory is not needed to explain the report of the death of a police officer being morphed into the report of a police officer being DOA. Since we know something similar happened with President Kennedy, false reports of him being DOA when he actually was never declared dead on arrival.

Question 2:

Do you deny that people sometimes referred to the death of the President as the President being DOA, even though this was technically false?

Question 3:

If not, why do you think something similar could not have happen in a report of the death of a police officer?

[Martin Weidmann]

Correct. So, Officer Sabastian might have the siren on, or not. At times, sirens can be heard on the Dictabelt recording. But not when Officer Sabastian was speaking. So, it appears that officer Sabastian elected to not use the sirens and so could have easily heard a news report over the radio, as he said.

I know the media was reporting that the president may have died long before 1:25 CST. There were reports of quoting a Secret Service agent (no doubt, Clint Hill) that the President was dead. But it was always stressed that these were unconfirmed reports and that no official announcement had been made.

In any case, we know Officer Sabastian mentioned the officer. And might possibility (but probably not, probably Officer Owens) also mentioned the President. Why should this be considered only talking about the death of the President. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to say that Officer Sabastian was only talking about the death of a police officer. Or at most the death of both a police officer and the President?

Yes. But this torpedoes one of Martin’s main points, that the report “NBC is reporting DOA. . . . That the officer?” could not be referring to Officer Tippit, because it was impossible, or at least unlikely, that they could have gotten that report from Methodist Hospital so soon. Someone, maybe a reporter, maybe a radio announcer, maybe Officer Sabastian himself, may have changed “dead” to “DOA”. Just as was done with President Kennedy.

A slightly garbled report, that the President was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of President. Any more than a slightly garbled report, that a police officer was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of a police officer.

I said earlier that you would continue to twist and turn the facts as much as possible to keep your own theory (which you always consider to be correct) alive. And you have just proven me to be right. If it isn't the transcriber of the DPD radio dictabelt calls being "confused", then it is that Sabastian could have used his sirens and lights under code 2, but as no siren can be heard on the dictabelt, you say, he didn't, completely ignoring the fact that a police cruiser racing down a highway only needs to use his siren occasionally to alert cars in front of him....

You claim to know that "the media was reporting that the president may have died long before 1:25 CST" but you fail to provide any evidence in support of that "knowledge". And you falsely claim that "we know Officer Sabastian mentioned the officer" when in fact he did not mention the officer and we know no such thing. All we have is your claim that he asked "That the officer" when in fact the transcript has a questionmark behind his callsign 75.

You are just trying to win your argument by exhausting the people you talk to, by constantly throwing out new "possibillities", no matter how unlikely, instead of looking honestly at the available information.

The facts are simple. There was no radio broadcast about Tippit being DOA at 1.25. No such recording has ever surfaced, no reporter has ever come forward to take credit for it. It doesn't matter if something was garbled or not, because it never made it on air.

The claim that a broadcast about Tippit could have taken place based on "nothing more than the police radio broadcasts which the media monitored" fails simply because there were no such police radio broadcasts prior to Sabastian asking the dispatcher about the DOA reported by NBC News.

Your unwillingness to accept the reality that's staring you in the face makes it superfluous for anybody to confront you with the actual facts.

If you desperately want to believe that Johnny Brewer heard a report on the radio about an officer being shot before he started following the man to the Texas Theater, then have at it.... believe it as much as you like, but don't pretend there is any evidence for it because there clearly isn't and your Sabastian quote "NBC News is reporting DOA" doesn't alter that one bit.

[John Iacoletti]

In any case, we know Officer Sabastian mentioned the officer.

No, "we" don't know that.  For one thing, it says "75(?)".  For another, it sounds like "that the office" or "at the office" to me.  But if Sebastian actually heard that Tippit was DOA, then why would he be asking "that the officer?" in the first place?

And might possibility (but probably not, probably Officer Owens) also mentioned the President.

To my ear, it sounds like:

A3 (or 83) on the president
No, that's not correct.  Stand by, 19.

Why should this be considered only talking about the death of the President. Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to say that Officer Sabastian was only talking about the death of a police officer. Or at most the death of both a police officer and the President?

No, because there is no evidence of any radio report of a dead policeman at that time.  There is evidence of a radio report of JFK's death at that time.

A slightly garbled report, that the President was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of President. Any more than a slightly garbled report, that a police officer was DOA, should not cause one to conclude that this could not possibility be referring to the death of a police officer.

But there is no "slightly garbled report that a police officer was DOA".  That's just the spin you're trying to put on it.

[Gerry Down]

How many threads do we need on Johnny Brewer?

He is one of the "unsung heroes " (sic) who are not to be believed.

His compatriots are legion:
Ruth Paine.
Michael Paine.
Captain Westbrook.
Harry Holmes.
Will Fritz.
Agent Hosty.
Jack Ruby.
Wesley Frazier.
Agent Gerberling.
Patricia McMillan.

By no means am I saying those above were involved in the assassination. They were just willing participants in fingering Oswald, and helping push the official story.

Don't forget Marina Oswald. Without her, the Warren Report would not have been as effective in silencing the issue, in the beginning at least.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Unsung Heroes

There is a list of heroes in the case. Most of them have been known for years.

Officer Tippit. Officer McDonald. Johnny Brewer, Julia Postal. Names of people who at a critical junction, stepped up and did something that resulted in the capture of the assassin of the President with 75 minutes.

But I think there is probably another. Officer E.G. Sabastian reported immediately over the radio that NBC News reported that a police officer had been shot. Johnny Brewer reported hearing two weeks later that he heard an early report of the shooting of a police officer. I think there was such a broadcast. Which means we have another hero. An unknown hero.

Some station news director at the local NBC News station, at WFAA, broadcasting on the NBC station 820 AM got a report that the police radio said that a police officer was murdered in the Oak Cliff area. He made the call, we’re not going to go with another message about what a terrible event this is, we’re not going with another call about what a priest said, we’re not going with another call about we still haven’t heard an official announcement. Instead, he made the call, broadcast, immediately, that a police officer was shot in the Oak Cliff area.

Maybe this didn’t make a difference. Maybe Johnny Brewer was already alerted by the report of the President being shot just 3 miles away just 66 minutes earlier. But who knows, maybe it made the difference. In any case, while all other program directors got locked up with information overload, it appears that one of them didn’t and made the correct call. And scooped the competition. And helped get Oswald captured. To our newest unknown hero, I salute you.

And the myths go on and on and on.