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Author Topic: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case  (Read 5429 times)

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 05:23:45 PM »
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No boxes were moved.





Allowing for the perspective change, the start of the crack on the windscreen captured in Altgens7 which was displayed in numerous newspapers the same day shows the same chipped location and radiating crack as officially captured in the early hours of the following day.







JohnM
What sort of weirdness have you inserted in the window?
And what does it prove?
Besides absolutely nothing?

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 05:23:45 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2020, 07:12:18 AM »
We could play this game all day. For every one HSCA statement that you can cite for the lone-gunman position, I can cite two or three that support the conspiracy position, from Oswald's links to Ferrie and Shaw, to the moving of boxes in the sixth-floor window at a time when Oswald could not have been there, to the smell of gunpowder on the knoll, to Ruby's Mafia ties, to how Ruby entered the basement, to the DPD's pulling of security from the area where Ruby entered the basement shortly before he arrived, to the acoustical evidence of at least 4 shots, to the timing of the first hit on JFK, to the utter discrediting of the autopsy doctors, to the discovery of the fragment on the outer table of the skull to the left of the 6.5 mm fragment image, to Canning's rejection of the FPP's trajectory, etc., etc., etc.

No, because the DPD dictabelt contains at least 4 gunshot impulses, because the Zapruder film shows reactions to at least 6 shots, because we've known for decades that the FBI and the DPD severely misrepresented what many witnesses told them, because some of the shots were fired almost simultaneously and could have sounded like one shot, and because some of the witnesses who were close to a firing point could only hear shots from that point (e.g., the guys beneath the sniper's nest), to name a few reasons.

You missed the evidence in my article. CE 543 could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination. How could the two other shells have a chambering impression on their side but CE 543 not have one? How could even the live round that remained in the rifle’s chamber have this chambering mark on its side but CE 543 not have it? Answer: CE 543 was not fired from the alleged murder weapon on the day of the shooting. If it had been fired that day, it would have an impression from the rifle's chamber on its side, but it does not. And only the last shell in the clip gets marked by the magazine follower, and we know CE 543 was not the last cartridge in the clip because the rifle was found with a live round in the chamber, so whenever CE 543 got marked by the magazine follower, it could not have been during the shooting.
 
Six or seven shots were fired.

https://miketgriffith.com/files/extrabullets.htm

https://miketgriffith.com/files/6shots.htm

Impulses from at least four of them are on the DPD dictabelt:

http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961#relPageId=7&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=4277#relPageId=29

Dr. G. Paul Chambers' 21-page analysis of the acoustical evidence in Head Shot: The Science Behind the JFK Assassination (chapter 6) (Dr. Chambers also responds to the NRC arguments against the acoustical evidence.)

There was a bullet hole in the windshield--several witnesses got a very good look at it:

http://www.jfksouthknollgunman.com/index.php/04-2-bullet-hole/


"We could play this game all day"----Michael Griffith

No, the discussion about the actual mechanics of the assassination is very simple and the rest of what was listed are old debunked theories. I am not sure but are you actually stating he was struck by more than two bullets with the witnesses unable to hear some of the shots? Multiple shooters all armed with carcanos?  Zapruder stated there was only two shots and so did Louis Alveraz and Dr Hartmann who independently studied Zapruder's reactions based on Jiggle Analysis.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.

------------------------------

This is definitely enlightening, in the expose' on the dented shell it was firmly stated there was just two shots from the Snipers Nest. Basically it listed  four reasons why it was not possible CE 543 was actually fired that day. The dented lip and the follower marks have been arguable for a long time, but the indentation referred to as a "chambering mark" and the marks on the base of the shell, from the shell having been used as a snap cap and dry fired, are solid evidence. The "chambering mark" on CE 141 clearly indicates an anomaly in the chamber of the rifle causing the "chambering mark" or indentation.

Michael Griffith-- Dented Shell: 

"How could the two other shells have a chambering impression on their side but CE 543 not have one? How could even the live round that remained in the rifle’s chamber have this chambering mark on its side but CE 543 not have it? The explanation seems obvious: CE 543 was not fired from the alleged murder weapon on the day of the shooting."

You are correct in your assessment of only two shots being fired by the Sniper. Numerous eyewitnesses all stated there was just two shots. BR Williams stated there was two shots from above him as did Jarman who  stated after the second shot the Limousine sped away. Howard Brennan saw the Sniper fire the second of two shots. On and On and On the eyewitnesses relate a two shot assassination.

Realistically there was really only time for two shots and what little evidence that was recovered was a bullet and fragments from another bullet, both having been matched to the rifle discovered on the 6th floor and to the exclusion of all other rifles.

SBT? The wound to Gov Connally's back can only be explained by the bullet first passing through JFK. If there is a conspiracy of any kind in this simple 5+ second act, by all means pursue it. Maybe it is time to evaluate the available hard evidence and determine the real value of all the hearsay in assessing the assassination.

How there could have been another assassin is beyond reasoning. The trajectory of the two shots are known to have been from behind JFK. To assume there was another assassin that individual also would have to have been armed with a carcano and standing beside LHO or simply completely missed everyone and everything.

What you choose to do with the shell information is your business but you should also know the WC reached a similar conclusion and stated it in their final analysis:

WC conclusion pages 110-111
It is possible that the assassin carried an
empty shell in the rifle and fired only two shots, with the witnesses
hearing multiple noises made by the same shot.
Soon after the three
empty cartridges were found, officials at the scene decided that three
shots were fired, and that conclusion was widely circulated by the
press. The eyewitness testimony may be subconsciously colored by
the extensive publicity given the conclusion that three shots were fired.


Offline John Mytton

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2020, 01:51:05 AM »
What sort of weirdness have you inserted in the window?
And what does it prove?
Besides absolutely nothing?

Huh? Can you elaborate on what the heck you're trying to say because as usual your erratic ramblings are impossible to decipher??

JohnM

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2020, 01:51:05 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2020, 02:27:34 AM »
John, Is it fair to say, then, that it was a crack (probably caused by a fragment from the fatal head shot), and not a through-and-through hole? (Great graphics, btw.) --  MWT  ;)

No, it was not a crack: it was a hole. Several witnesses got a very good look at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8

Plus, the HSCA's trajectory expert, Dr. Thomas Canning from NASA, observed that the windshield damage was too high to have been caused by fragments from the head shot.

And then there is the neat, round deep dent in the top of the windshield chrome.

In 2017, documentation was discovered that revealed that an extra bullet was found in JFK’s limousine by two Navy petty officers on the night of the assassination after the limousine was back in DC that night. At the request of Dr. Humes, they searched the limo for any extra bullets, bullet fragments, or skull fragments. The petty officer who found the bullet confirmed the account, and Dr. James Young, a Navy doctor who attended the autopsy, has confirmed that he received the bullet from the petty officer. The bullet disappeared after it was given to Dr. Humes--surprise, surprise.

https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/10/06/navy-doctor-bullet-found-jfks-limousine-never-reported/
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 02:29:44 AM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2020, 02:50:53 AM »
No, it was not a crack: it was a hole. Several witnesses got a very good look at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtFoPCKVp-8

Plus, the HSCA's trajectory expert, Dr. Thomas Canning from NASA, observed that the windshield damage was too high to have been caused by fragments from the head shot.

And then there is the neat, round deep dent in the top of the windshield chrome.

In 2017, documentation was discovered that revealed that an extra bullet was found in JFK’s limousine by two Navy petty officers on the night of the assassination after the limousine was back in DC that night. At the request of Dr. Humes, they searched the limo for any extra bullets, bullet fragments, or skull fragments. The petty officer who found the bullet confirmed the account, and Dr. James Young, a Navy doctor who attended the autopsy, has confirmed that he received the bullet from the petty officer. The bullet disappeared after it was given to Dr. Humes--surprise, surprise.

https://whowhatwhy.org/2017/10/06/navy-doctor-bullet-found-jfks-limousine-never-reported/


Why do you ignore the irrefutable evidence that the exact same start of the crack in the windscreen was captured by Altgens and was in precisely the same spot as was captured in the official photo which shows absolutely no through-and-through hole? And even if in some alternate universe there was a hole, you do realize that the "hole" could equally happen from the front or the rear?
Btw why would the conspirators even remotely consider the extremely stupid idea of having a sniper in front when the guy you are setting up was behind? Doh!







JohnM
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 03:21:51 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2020, 02:50:53 AM »


Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2020, 07:30:49 PM »
No boxes were moved.





Allowing for the perspective change, the start of the crack on the windscreen captured in Altgens7 which was displayed in numerous newspapers the same day shows the same chipped location and radiating crack as officially captured in the early hours of the following day.







JohnM

You have taken an existing photograph, or a frame from a moving photograph,  of the depository, and used some software that creates what, exactly? Imaginary images. Ok.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2020, 07:40:18 PM »
You have taken an existing photograph, or a frame from a moving photograph,  of the depository, and used some software that creates what, exactly? Imaginary images. Ok.

Yeah, that’s what “Mytton” does.

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2020, 07:40:18 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The HSCA Investigation: A Major Step Forward in the JFK Case
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2020, 08:43:04 PM »
No boxes were moved.





JohnM

'No boxes were moved'

I get the perspective change thing, but I thought the moved/not moved boxes thing was about the boxes right at the window. Yet your gif appears to show the wall of boxes behind the immediate cuckoo nest, and only the tip of a top window box.

 :(
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:56:10 PM by Bill Chapman »