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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 308348 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6264 on: June 08, 2023, 09:45:59 AM »
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Twenty Secret Service agents have reportedly testified against Trump to the grand jury. How many of them do you think wanted to do that? Their job is to keep presidential secrets. But it was either testify against Trump or go to prison themselves. There's no magical third option.

We’re about to hear the narrative that Donald Trump could have avoided prison if he’d just returned the documents when asked, and that he stubbornly did this to himself for no reason. And that’s true when it comes to the obstruction of justice charges. But the reason Trump is also getting charged with espionage is that his intent was much more sinister than mere stubbornness.

For instance, one of the key pieces of evidence in this case is a recording of Trump discussing an Iran-related classified document with Mark Meadows’ ghostwriters. This means Trump was willfully disseminating classified information, to people he knew weren’t authorized to hear about it, long before the DOJ got involved.

It sounds like these ghostwriters turned out to be harmless. But the reason Trump committed espionage by discussing the classified intel with them is that for all he knew, these ghostwriters could have turned around and sold that intel to Saudi Arabia. Trump knew he was exposing classified state secrets, and he didn’t care about the implications. That’s not stubbornness...it’s espionage.

We still don’t know what else Jack Smith has uncovered. We don’t know if he’s found evidence that Trump gave or sold any classified information to any foreign entities. We’ll see which way that goes when the indictment happens. But even just based on what’s already come out publicly, this was far more sinister than merely refusing to return documents or lying about their locations. Trump was willfully disseminating classified state secrets even before the Feds started demanding the return of the documents.

Donald Trump committed espionage against the United States. This wasn’t about boxes, it was about espionage. That’s the story. Let’s not allow the prevailing narrative to be any watered down variation of it.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6264 on: June 08, 2023, 09:45:59 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6265 on: June 08, 2023, 09:58:13 AM »
DOJ ready to ask for Trump indictment on obstruction and Espionage Act charges



The Department of Justice is readying to ask a Washington D.C. grand jury to indict Donald Trump on obstruction and Espionage Act charges, which could happen as soon as Thursday, The Independent reports.

Prosecutors are prepared to ask the grand jury hearing evidence to approve an indictment that the former president violated a federal criminal code that prohibits “gathering, transmitting or losing” any “information respecting the national defense,” the report said.

The Independent’s Andrew Feinberg writes that “The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trump’s ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021.”


Prosecutors ready to ask for Trump indictment on obstruction and Espionage Act charges

The Independent has learned that prosecutors are prepared to ask grand jurors to vote on charges as early as Thursday

The Department of Justice is preparing to ask a Washington, DC grand jury to indict former president Donald Trump for violating the Espionage Act and for obstruction of justice as soon as Thursday, adding further weight to the legal baggage facing Mr Trump as he campaigns for his party’s nomination in next year’s presidential election.

The Independent has learned that prosecutors are ready to ask grand jurors to approve an indictment against Mr Trump for violating a portion of the US criminal code known as Section 793, which prohibits “gathering, transmitting or losing” any “information respecting the national defence”.

The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trump’s ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021.

That section of US criminal law is written in a way that could encompass Mr Trump’s conduct even if he was authorised to possess the information as president because it states that anyone who “lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document ...relating to the national defence,” and “willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it” can be punished by as many as 10 years in prison.

It is understood that prosecutors intend to ask grand jurors to vote on the indictment on Thursday, but that vote could be delayed as much as a week until the next meeting of the grand jury to allow for a complete presentation of evidence, or to allow investigators to gather more evidence for presentation if necessary.

A separate grand jury that is meeting in Florida has also been hearing evidence in the documents investigation. That grand jury was empaneled in part to overcome legal issues posed by the fact that some of the crimes allegedly committed by Mr Trump took place in that jurisdiction, not in Washington. Under federal law, prosecutors must bring charges against federal defendants in the jurisdiction where the crimes took place.

Even if grand jurors vote to return an indictment against the ex-president this week, it is likely that those charges would remain sealed until both the Washington and Florida grand juries complete their work.

Another source familiar with the matter has said Mr Trump’s team was recently informed that he is a “target” of the Justice Department probe, which began in early 2022 after National Archives and Records Administration officials discovered more than 100 documents bearing classification markings in a set of 15 boxes of Trump administration records retrieved from Mar-a-Lago, the century-old mansion turned private beach club where Mr Trump maintains his primary residence and post-presidential office.

Over the course of the last year, grand jurors have heard testimony from numerous associates of the ex-president, including nearly every employee of Mar-a-Lago, former administration officials who worked in Mr Trump’s post-presidential office and for his political operation, and former high-ranking administration officials such as his final White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows.

Mr Meadows has already given evidence before the grand jury and is said to be cooperating with the investigations into his former boss. It is understood that the former North Carolina congressman testified as part of a deal for which he has already received limited immunity in exchange for his testimony.

A source who was briefed on the agreement claimed that the alleged agreement will involve the ex-chief of staff entering pleas of guilty to unspecified federal crimes but an attorney for Mr Meadows, George Terwilliger, denied that to The Independent. Mr Terwilliger said that the idea that his client would enter any guilty pleas was “complete bulls***” but did not address the matter of immunity in a brief telephone conversation with this reporter.

It is not yet known whether the testimony or the charges in question relate to the documents probe, or a separate investigation into the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Both investigations are being overseen by a Department of Justice special prosecutor, Jack Smith. According to ABC News, Mr Meadows has given evidence in both the documents matter and the January 6 investigation.

In the documents matter, prosecutors are also prepared to ask grand jurors to indict Mr Trump on charges that he obstructed justice during the year-long investigation and caused false statements to be made to investigators by persons working for him.

It is possible that such charges could stem from a declaration submitted to federal investigators roughly a year ago, when FBI agents and prosecutors visited his home to retrieve a sealed folder filled with 38 classified documents which Mr Trump’s attorneys turned over in response to a grand jury subpoena. If so, those charges could come in federal court in Florida, rather than in Washington.

According to court documents, the government subsequently developed evidence indicating that documents had been removed from a storage room where his attorneys had stated that all such documents were being stored in the days following the receipt of the grand jury subpoena.

Using that evidence, which reportedly includes surveillance footage taken by cameras placed in the interior of Mar-a-Lago, prosecutors obtained a search warrant for the property that was carried out by FBI agents on 8 August last year.

During that search, special agents discovered 103 documents bearing classification markings, including 18 marked “top secret,” 54 marked “secret,” and 31 marked as “confidential,” including a number of documents that were stored in Mr Trump’s personal office.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-indictment-section-793-espionage-act-mark-meadows-b2353684.html#Echobox=1686166165

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6266 on: June 08, 2023, 10:15:01 AM »
Yes, Criminal Donald is about to be indicted again, and this time for espionage.

Conway: Trump reportedly receiving target letter suggests ‘imminent’ indictment
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/conway-trump-reportedly-receiving-target-letter-suggests-imminent-indictment-180955717577


Multiple witnesses subpoenaed in Florida in Trump Mar-a-Lago case

Involvement of top prosecutor Jay Bratt in the Florida grand jury could suggest questions about Espionage Act violations



Federal prosecutors have subpoenaed multiple witnesses to testify before a previously unknown grand jury in Florida in the criminal investigation into Donald Trump’s handling of national security materials and obstruction of justice, according to people familiar with the matter.

The new grand jury activity at the US district court in Miami marks the latest twist in the investigation that for months has involved a grand jury that had been taking evidence in the case in Washington but has been silent since the start of last month.

Trump aide Taylor Budowich testified before the Florida grand jury on Wednesday, one of the people said. Questioning was expected to be led by Jay Bratt, the justice department’s counterintelligence chief detailed to the special counsel Jack Smith, who is leading the investigation.

The previously unreported involvement of Bratt could suggest the questioning may focus on potential Espionage Act violations, particularly whether Trump showed off national security documents to people at his Mar-a-Lago resort – a recent focus of the investigation.

Bratt, who was seen arriving in Miami on Tuesday by the Guardian, has previously appeared for grand jury proceedings in the espionage side of the investigation, as opposed to the obstruction side, which has typically been led by Smith’s other prosecutors or national security trial attorneys.

A justice department spokesperson declined to comment.

But the underlying reasons as to why prosecutors in the special counsel’s office impaneled the new grand jury in Florida, and whether it is now the only grand jury active in the case after the Washington grand jury has sat dormant for weeks, remains an open question.

Prosecutors would most probably prefer to bring charges in Washington, where the judges at the US district court are more familiar with handling national security cases – though Florida also has a robust national security section – and the jury pool skews more Democratic.

The impaneling of grand juries has to do with where prosecutors believe a crime was committed. And the most straightforward reason for the Florida grand jury is that prosecutors have developed evidence of criminal activity at Mar-a-Lago, which is in the southern district of Florida.

In this investigation, prosecutors considering charges against Trump for retaining national security material may have concluded from the evidence that he was still president when classified documents were moved to Mar-a-Lago, meaning his “unlawful possession” only started in Florida.

Similarly, if prosecutors have also developed evidence that Trump knew he had retained national security documents after he left office at Mar-a-Lago, for instance by waving them around or showing people, that could present hurdles to charging Espionage Act violations in Washington.

The venue for an obstruction of justice charge is more difficult to deduce, meanwhile, because the courts have provided little guidance about how it should be applied under section 1519 of the US criminal code, which prosecutors listed on the affidavit for Mar-a-Lago search warrant.

Generally, other obstruction statutes hold that the venue depends on where the impeded proceeding was taking place. In the Trump documents investigation, the subpoena last year demanding the return of classified documents was issued in Washington.

The US court of appeals for the DC circuit, however, has ruled in previous cases that the correct venue is where acts of obstruction took place. If prosecutors are considering obstruction charges for Trump’s steps to conceal classified documents after the subpoena, Florida could be the venue.

Separate to the question of why prosecutors impaneled a new grand jury in Florida is what it indicates in terms of the status of the criminal investigation.

If both the Florida grand jury and the Washington grand jury are active, that could indicate prosecutors are considering charges in both places and against the same targets. But if the Florida grand jury is the only grand jury in operation, that could suggest several things.

It could be that the investigation in Washington is largely finished, and prosecutors have finalized whether to charge Trump and others there, but are still weighing separate charges in Florida.

Or prosecutors might have concluded charges in Washington and are at risk of dismissal over improper venue because the crimes occurred at Mar-a-Lago, and are moving the entire case to Florida.

Moving the entire case to Florida would not necessarily be that burdensome for the special counsel, legal experts said, and would just involve prosecutors reading out transcripts of testimony previously delivered to the Washington grand jury, in addition to questioning new witnesses.

For months, prosecutors have examined whether the failure by Trump to fully comply with a subpoena demanding the return of any classified documents was a deliberate act of obstruction, according to multiple people with knowledge of the case.

Last June, the since-recused Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran found 38 classified documents in the storage room at Mar-a-Lago and told the justice department that no further materials remained there – which came into question when the FBI seized 101 additional classified documents months later.

Corcoran later told associates he felt misled because he had asked whether he should search elsewhere at Mar-a-Lago, like Trump’s office, but was waved off, the Guardian first reported. Corcoran’s notes also showed he told Trump he had to return all classified documents in his possession.

The investigation has also been focused on whether Trump showed off national security materials at his other properties like the Trump Bedminster golf club in New Jersey, including a document concerning military action against Iran, people close to the case said.

Prosecutors have seemingly been trying to identify whether that Iran document was the same document Trump referenced on an audio recording in which he said he could not discuss it because he did not declassify it while in office – though he should have, the Guardian previously reported.

To that end, prosecutors have showed an Iran document to some witnesses who appeared before the Washington grand jury and asked whether they had ever seen the material by Trump or anyone else. It was not clear whether any witness confirmed seeing the document, one of the people said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/07/trump-documents-grand-jury-florida-espionage-act



Ex-Nixon White House counsel says ‘all signs’ point to Trump indictment

Mark Meadows, Donald Trump’s former chief of staff, has testified to a federal grand jury as part of special counsel Jack Smith’s ongoing investigation into the former president, according to one source familiar with the matter. CNN's Anderson Cooper is joined by Chief Correspondent Kaitlan Collins, Former Assistant US Attorney Elie Honig, Former Nixon White House Counsel John Dean, CNN Senior Political Commentator Adam Kinzinger. #CNN

Watch:


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6266 on: June 08, 2023, 10:15:01 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6267 on: June 08, 2023, 10:15:57 PM »
Exclusive: Mark Meadows removed classified documents from the White House the last night of Donald Trump's presidency

Cassidy Hutchinson testified that she witnessed Meadows removing the papers

https://murraywaas.substack.com/p/exclusive-mark-meadows-removed-classified

This week we got the pivotal, yet not surprising, news that Mark Meadows has already testified against Donald Trump to the DOJ grand jury. One news outlet has gone further, reporting that Meadows cut the kind of immunity deal that allowed him to give broader testimony against Trump. Meadows’ attorney is claiming no deal happened. But it is clear that Meadows did testify against Trump.

That’s what makes today’s latest revelation so remarkable. Investigative reporter Murray Waas, who has broken a number of stories over the years, is now reporting that Donald Trump had Mark Meadows pack up boxes of classified documents on their way out of the White House at the end of Trump’s term. This obviously puts Meadows at the dead center of the DOJ’s classified documents case, and makes it an even bigger deal that he’s testified to the grand jury.

In addition, if Trump ordered Meadows to pack up the classified documents as they were leaving office, it’ll prove that Trump didn’t merely take documents by accident and then stubbornly refuse to return them. It’ll mean he specifically instructed his right hand man to help him steal them. This would make Trump and Meadows both guilty of espionage, which would explain why Meadows has reportedly cut a limited immunity deal.

The truth about all this stuff will come out in the indictment text, so at this point we’re just waiting for the hammer to fall. It would still theoretically be today. It could be tomorrow. And as we’ve seen from other grand juries that were on the verge of indicting, it could end up not happening until next week. The waiting game is what it is. In the meantime, the news just keeps getting even uglier for Trump. Might as well enjoy it while waiting.


Live updates: Florida grand jury investigates Trump's handling of classified documents

Special counsel Jack Smith has presented evidence in Florida and Washington, D.C., about the former president's handling of documents after he left office.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/live-updates-trump-classified-documents-florida-grand-jury-rcna88233

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6268 on: June 09, 2023, 12:45:57 AM »
Donald Trump wrote on his failed social media site that he has been indicted by the DOJ. News reports are surfacing it is a 7 count indictment! 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/live-updates-trump-classified-documents-florida-grand-jury-rcna88233#rcrd13829

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6268 on: June 09, 2023, 12:45:57 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Donald Trump Indicted!
« Reply #6269 on: June 09, 2023, 12:48:19 AM »
Criminal Donald has been indicted AGAIN!

Trump says on Truth Social he's been indicted in classified docs probe
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-truth-social-indicted-classified-docs-probe-rcna79343

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6270 on: June 09, 2023, 12:53:32 AM »
Donald Trump indicted for second time, in classified documents investigation: Sources
https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-indicted-time-sources/story?id=99408228

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6270 on: June 09, 2023, 12:53:32 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6271 on: June 09, 2023, 01:11:47 AM »
Donald Trump had a berserk meltdown on his social media site as he was informed that he's been indicted by the DOJ and has been ordered to surrender.

Donald Trump has been criminally indicted by the DOJ, and has been ordered to surrender himself early next week. This news was broken, oddly enough, by Donald Trump himself on a social media post. Now multiple major news outlets are confirming that Trump has indeed been indicted. Trump isn’t taking the news well.

Trump is throwing a fit on social media, declaring that “I have been summoned to appear at the Federal Courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, at 3 PM” and whining that “I never thought it possible that such a thing could happen.” Yeah whatever. Blah blah blah.

So what are the charges? The New York Times says there are seven felony counts, but doesn’t know what they are yet. Trump was previously hit with thirty-four felony counts in Manhattan. In this DOJ case, there is every reason to expect that at least one of them will be espionage, one of the most serious criminal charges on the books. Donald Trump insisting that “I AM AN INNOCENT MAN!” Yeah, well, tell it to the judge and jury Donnie.