Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Alan Ford]

If Baker is telling the truth he confronted Oswald on the second floor.

If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?

Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in...

If the recorded words are true Baker confronted Oswald just as he reached the front door.
Either way, Oswald is inside the building at the time of the assassination

Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?

Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?

This is in accordance with the video evidence of Oswald saying exactly this. ("In" meaning "inside" in this case)

If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade".

While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)

[Dan O'meara]

If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?

Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in...

Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?

Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?

If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade".

While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)

"If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?"

He was unfamiliar with the building and pumped full of adrenaline. In his statement he is very vague about where the confrontation took place, possibly not realising it's importance. He doesn't say "a floor higher than two". The re-enactment probably cleared things up if he hadn't already realised it was the second floor.

"Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in... "

The usual fantasia Mr Ford

"Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?"

Read the post you're replying to.

"Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?"

This is what Baker actually stated: "As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were."
Do you see how you've twisted the original meaning?
Were they inside or outside? The clue is in the phrase "As I entered the front door". The front door delineates inside and outside. Isn't that obvious?
Who are these people? I thought you Prayer Man lot had accounted for where everyone was. Roy Lewis also talks about some women standing in this area. Who are they? Don't you know?

"If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade"."

Erm...


"While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)"

The second you come up with anyone even remotely credible I'll give it some thought

[Frederick Clements]

Frazier has been shown the Prayer Man photo on many occasions and each time he has given different answers. He has never said that is Oswald, but has never said that is not Oswald either.

Fred

[Colin Crow]

Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect.
I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.
But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps. I don't remember that close.

[Alan Ford]

"If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?"

He was unfamiliar with the building and pumped full of adrenaline. In his statement he is very vague about where the confrontation took place,

No, he's not----------------he says he saw the man "walking away from the stairway", he called out to the man and the man turned around and came back to him. Nothing vague there! 

possibly not realising it's importance. He doesn't say "a floor higher than two".

You don't think "third or fourth floor" is higher than second floor? 

The re-enactment probably cleared things up if he hadn't already realised it was the second floor.

How naive!

"Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in... "

The usual fantasia Mr Ford

So you didn't even know that Officer Baker saw Mr Oswald being brought in as he (Officer Baker) was giving his affidavit? Oh dear...

"Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?"

Read the post you're replying to.

I have done, Mr O'Meara, and it's hopelessly unclear: who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Do tell! 

"Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?"

This is what Baker actually stated: "As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were."
Do you see how you've twisted the original meaning?
Were they inside or outside? The clue is in the phrase "As I entered the front door". The front door delineates inside and outside. Isn't that obvious?
Who are these people? I thought you Prayer Man lot had accounted for where everyone was. Roy Lewis also talks about some women standing in this area. Who are they? Don't you know?

Nice try, but... nope! Officer Baker's "As I entered the door" could place the people "standing around" either inside or outside.

"If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade"."

Erm...

Exactly------you can't explain away what's in the Hosty draft report and so just do what you tend to do in these situations: ignore what's inconvenient to your theory.

"While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)"

The second you come up with anyone even remotely credible I'll give it some thought

So you refuse to accept even the possibility that Prayer Man might be Mr Oswald, yet you still can't offer a single credible alternative candidate? No wonder you don't want to talk about the Hosty draft report! 

[Alan Ford]

Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect.
I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.
But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps. I don't remember that close.

V. interesting, Mr Crow----------the selfsame ambiguity about exact location as we have been debating re. Postal Inspector Holmes' testimony! 

Cf! the first FBI interview report with Mr Truly: "...he accompanied the officer into the front of the building. They saw no one there and he accompanied the officer immediately up the stairs..."

[Jack Nessan]

The statement you are interpreting says nothing about the second floor.

Holmes:
Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

Exactly, obviously he was not outside or even on the first floor during the parade. He was going down to the first floor, to check out the "commotion" downstairs. He either encountered Baker and Truly on the second floor as they state or the first floor as LHO stated. Either way according to his account he was descending from an even a higher floor and LHO makes the same reference to encountering Truly and Baker as do Truly and Baker. Just a different location but he was definitely in the building during the assassination.

Basically was LHO on the second floor or not when he encountered Baker and Truly.




Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?
Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.