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Author Topic: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.  (Read 6807 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 01:04:16 AM »
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If everyone could just look CLOSELY at where President Kennedy's hands go to...

 The hands are never at "neck level", they never go near the throat, and he never "clutched his throat".  Sadly, this entire idea seems to stem from no one having made blow ups of the Z frames for a cursory examination of the film to examine exactly what happened, before 1966 when John Connally examined blown up frames trying to determine when he was shot.  Life Magazine is responsible for claiming that the President "clutched his throat" in its October 1964 edition, in one of the captions for the Zapruder frames they published in that issue.

 The right hand is the first to go into position in a cupped fashion, over the mouth.  The left hand comes up, every finger except for the index finger are curled. The index finger is slightly curled but in a near straight position as the hand forms into a semi-fist and comes up against the bottom the right hand.  It looks like he could very well be dry heaving after the bullet that ripped through his back exited the throat.   As he starts to turn his head to his left, his right hand--now in a semi-cupped position-is now at cheek level as his head turns and the hand remains in the upward position.  He doesn't start to bring the left hand/arm down until after Mrs. Kennedy grasps his left arm and pulls him slightly downward and toward her.  His right hand then moves from cheek level down to chest level where it remains until the fatal shot is fired.
I don't think it matters precisely where he put his hands. What matters is why his hands moved from the position they are seen in z193 to the position they are in at z223 and why his facial expression seen when he appears from behind the Stemmons sign is so different from that in z193. Many witnesses said his facial expression changed like that and his hand positions changed like that in respon4se to the first shot.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 01:04:16 AM »


Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2018, 03:08:30 PM »
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I don't think it matters precisely where he put his hands. What matters is why his hands moved from the position they are seen in z193 to the position they are in at z223 and why his facial expression seen when he appears from behind the Stemmons sign is so different from that in z193. Many witnesses said his facial expression changed like that and his hand positions changed like that in respon4se to the first shot.


Well, maybe it doesn't make any difference to you, but to me, it does.  If people are going to point things out in the Zapruder film--or any of the photographic evidence--they need to interpret it  it correctly.  People are constantly using the position of his hands as they "see" them as an excuse to say that a bullet entered the throat from the front as their "proof", when his hands don't go anywhere near his throat.

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2018, 07:30:03 PM »
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Well, maybe it doesn't make any difference to you, but to me, it does.  If people are going to point things out in the Zapruder film--or any of the photographic evidence--they need to interpret it  it correctly.  People are constantly using the position of his hands as they "see" them as an excuse to say that a bullet entered the throat from the front as their "proof", when his hands don't go anywhere near his throat.
Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2018, 01:47:39 AM »
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Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

Absolutely agreed.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 06:00:38 PM »
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Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

The autopsy doesn't tell us anything of the kind about the throat wound.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 06:00:38 PM »


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2018, 03:47:13 AM »
Not sure why you say that. The autopsy report summary, p. 6, refers to the throat wound as the exit wound from the bullet that entered in the upper back:

"The other missile entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right, side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right Yupper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck no bony structures in its path through the body."

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2018, 04:58:11 PM »
"The second wound presumably of entry is that described above in the upper right posterior thorax. Beneath the skin there is ecchymosis of subcutaneous tissue and musculature. The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily proved. The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region."

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2018, 06:25:56 AM »
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"The second wound presumably of entry is that described above in the upper right posterior thorax. Beneath the skin there is ecchymosis of subcutaneous tissue and musculature. The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily proved. The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region."
That does not mean that they were unable to prove the missile path through the fascia and muscles.  It was proven to their satisfaction. Just not easily . They explained how the wounds were connected:

"The third point of reference in connecting these two wounds is in the apex (supra-clavicular portion) of the right pleural cavity. In this region there is contusion of the parietal pleura and of the extreme apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. In both instances the diameter of contusion and ecchymosis at the point of maximal involvement measures 5 cm. Both the visceral and parietal pleura are intact overlying these areas of trauma."

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2018, 06:25:56 AM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2018, 08:39:16 PM »
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That does not mean that they were unable to prove the missile path through the fascia and muscles.  It was proven to their satisfaction. Just not easily . They explained how the wounds were connected:

"The third point of reference in connecting these two wounds is in the apex (supra-clavicular portion) of the right pleural cavity. In this region there is contusion of the parietal pleura and of the extreme apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. In both instances the diameter of contusion and ecchymosis at the point of maximal involvement measures 5 cm. Both the visceral and parietal pleura are intact overlying these areas of trauma."

I think by "proven" you mean speculation.

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 07:44:42 PM »
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I think by "proven" you mean speculation.
No. I meant "proven" in the sense of: a rational conclusion based on evidence.   

The three autopsy doctors reached these conclusions based on the evidence they had. 

First of all, there was abundant evidence that the head shot had entered from the back. This was evident from the examination of the hole in the back of the skull: "Situated in the posterior scalp approximately 2.5 cm. laterally to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance is a lacerated wound measuring 15 x 6 mm. In the underlying bone is a corresponding wound through the skull which exhibits beveling of the margins of the bone when viewed from the inner aspect of the skull." (Autopsy report: CE387 at p. 4). They also observed in the xrays metal particles behind the President's right eye (Humes: 2 H 353).

They observed a similar size hole in the upper back.  They were informed that there had been the tracheostomy done in the same location where there was already a wound in the throat.

There was evidence that the internal damage ("contusion of the parietal pleura and of the extreme apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung.) aligned with the two external wounds in the upper back and throat (Humes: 2 H 369) :

    "Senator COOPER. Assuming that we draw a straight line from Point C which you have described as a possible point of entry of the missile, to Point D where you saw an incision of the tracheotomy-
    Commander HUMES. Yes, sir.
    Senator COOPER. What would be the relation of the bruise at the apex of the pleural sac to such a line?
    Commander HUMES. It would be exactly in line with such a line. sir. exactly.

Xrays of this area showed no bullet remained in the President.

The angle to the neck wound was downward. There was no evidence presented to them that there was a shot fired in an upward direction from somewhere in front of the President. There was evidence before them that a similar sized bullet had been fired from the rear and struck him in the head.

That is part of the body of evidence that persuaded all three doctors that the bullet had entered the upper back and exited the throat.

Although you may disagree with their conclusions, they reached their conclusions based on the evidence before them.  So it was not speculation.  If there is other evidence that was not before them that would call into question their conclusions, I have not seen it. 

To suggest that such evidence might exist and, if available, would call into question their conclusions would be speculation.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 07:46:47 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 07:44:42 PM »