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Author Topic: If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?  (Read 81412 times)

Offline Colin Crow

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Hoover never pulled rank. He never had the authority to do so. The DPD handed the evidence over to the FBI on Nov 22 voluntarily.

So the DPD requested Drain to come and collect the stuff? How did the transfer come about Tim? Someone must have instigated it. Am I correct in believing that this transfer was not widely known about for some considerable time?

Mr. HOOVER. That is correct, When President Johnson returned to Washington he communicated with me within the first 24 hours, and asked the Bureau to pick up the investigation of the assassination because as you are aware, there is no Federal jurisdiction for such an investigation. It is not a Federal crime to kill or attack the President or the Vice President or any of the continuity of officers who would succeed to the Presidency.
However, the President has a right to request the Bureau to make special investigations, and in this instance he asked that this investigation be made. I immediately assigned a special force headed by the special agent in charge at Dallas, Tex., to initiate the investigation, and to get all details and facts concerning it, which we obtained, and then prepared a report which we submitted to the Attorney General for transmission to the President.

"Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us."

Do you have an opinion why the bag and bottle, "the assassin's lunch' were not included that evening.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 04:20:07 AM by Colin Crow »

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Offline Tim Nickerson

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So the DPD requested Drain to come and collect the stuff? How did the transfer come about Tim? Someone must have instigated it. Am I correct in believing that this transfer was not widely known about for some considerable time?

"Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us."

Do you have an opinion why the bag and bottle, "the assassin's lunch' were not included that evening.

Drain was not the only FBI agent to take possession of evidence that day. As I said, the DPD voluntarily handed the evidence over to the FBI. I do not have an opinion as to why the bag and bottle, "Williams' lunch" were not included that evening.

Offline Colin Crow

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Drain was not the only FBI agent to take possession of evidence that day. As I said, the DPD voluntarily handed the evidence over to the FBI. I do not have an opinion as to why the bag and bottle, "Williams' lunch" were not included that evening.

Do you agree that at the time the evidence was transferred that the lunch was assumed to be associated with the assassination? Day's testimony infers that it was associated with Williams on the following Monday.

On that basis it should have been transferred.

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Online Martin Weidmann

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And the meltdown continues. LOL!

JohnM

What meltdown? You really can't help yourself, can you now?

Anyway, thanks for proving my point over and over again.....

You are so easy to provoke.... It's highly entertaining how your ego always gets the better of you.

Your childish urge of always having to "win", must have wreaked havoc to your life.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 10:12:59 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Alan Ford

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Yawn, welcome to the party, you do realize that all this has been thoroughly examined, dissected and analysed ad nausea years ago in one of Colin Crow's multipart Chicken Bone threads.
Let me slow this down for you, on one hand we have the fresh memories of Williams himself telling us that he brought his lunch from home and agreeing that carrying his lunch was his usual habit

 :D

So, Mr Mytton, you now all of a sudden are partial to "the fresh memories of Mr Williams himself"? Super! Let's start with what he says in his 11/22/63 affidavit------------

"We rode the elevator to the 1st floor and got our lunches. I went back on the 5th floor with a fellow called Hank and Junior (...)"

This is what Mr Williams' freshest of fresh memories is telling us, so it must be what happened. Right?

 Thumb1:

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Offline Colin Crow

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I don't know if you agree that Williams had his lunch on the 6th floor. If you do how long do you think he was up there before going down to the 5th because the way I read it he didn't go down until the last minute.

Some of JohnM's previous thoughts.......

"I reckon that Williams did in fact see Oswald in the sniper's nest because why would he go up to the 6th floor to sit with his mates and just plonk himself down in the middle of the floor without checking all the windows?

When Williams went down to the 5th floor he obviously went to the windows directly below the sniper's nest, so what stopped him doing the same on the floor above?

When confronted with the following wall of boxes, would Williams simply shout out to his friends and after not hearing an answer just move on or would he have a peek to see if his friends were there and perhaps just horsing around?

And from the following exchange from Williams testimony, after Ford heard Williams explain what happened on the 6th floor Ford immediately attempt to associate Williams with breaking the law, which could indicate that they thought that Williams was lying?

Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you see a good bit of the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building. But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to the west of me.
Representative FORD.Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir.
Representative FORD.No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?

JohnM

From <https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1266.60.html>

C'mon Colin we have debated this before, correct me if I'm wrong but where this is going is that you believe that Williams actually saw the killer and that's why they all lied, and as I remember I agreed with you and said that Williams must have seen Oswald and then you disagreed that it was Oswald, am I right?

JohnM

From <https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1266.80.html>


So at the end of the day, John essentially agreed with my analysis. We both believed that Williams saw the assassin before leaving. We differed in that John felt it was Oswald. I am not convinced.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:04:46 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Alan Ford

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Some of JohnM's previous thoughts.......

"I reckon that Williams did in fact see Oswald in the sniper's nest because why would he go up to the 6th floor to sit with his mates and just plonk himself down in the middle of the floor without checking all the windows? (...")

Mr Mytton believes Mr Williams saw Mr Oswald in the sniper's nest? This just gets funnier and funnier! No wonder Mr Williams was so terrified and kept on changing his story for months afterwards----------the poor man obviously feared a reprisal-haunting by the Lone Nut gunman's ghost!

I look forward to seeing a new Soopah-Doopah-Mytton-GIF proving that Mr Oswald, when seen in the right perspective, was an ageing black man!  :D

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Offline Colin Crow

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Mr Mytton believes Mr Williams saw Mr Oswald in the sniper's nest? This just gets funnier and funnier! No wonder Mr Williams was so terrified and kept on changing his story for months afterwards----------the poor man obviously feared a reprisal-haunting by the Lone Nut gunman's ghost!

I look forward to seeing a new Soopah-Doopah-Mytton-GIF proving that Mr Oswald, when seen in the right perspective, was an ageing black man!  :D

I wonder why Williams did not just tell the cops this the afternoon he was making his statement when he saw Oswald brought into custody. Would have saved us much anguish. Oswald, the guy who was gunned down in police protection less than two days later....that guy.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:30:08 AM by Colin Crow »