If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

  D'OH

Getting your story straight is one thing. Answering questions you've not even been asked is quite another.

We've worked out Adams timeline, what about Shelley and Lovelady?

[Colin Crow]

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

  D'OH

Getting your story straight is one thing. Answering questions you've not even been asked is quite another.

We've worked out Adams timeline, what about Shelley and Lovelady?

An interesting proposal Dan. Did they see the officer heading west from the front of the TSBD toward the car park (Officer Smith from memory). They moved to the west end of the TSBD annex and entered through the door there back into the south western part of the first floor. (Hence the mention of Piper). Not a particularly long journey. I believe an early statement had Shelley going inside to call his wife on the phone. I wonder who those two white guys were that Baker recalled seeing on his way through the first floor?

[Martin Weidmann]

Let's try and put it all together. For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

12.30.00 Last shot

12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door       
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call an elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
               run towards the stairs, just missing the women

This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.

12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs

12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles are stopped by a police officer who tells them to go back to the building.
              The women walk along side the railway track to the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location

Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.


Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD.

12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the front entrance of the building

12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building.
              Adams and Styles enter the TSBD through the front entrance and take the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              Adams walks through the office space to the North West corner and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building at the back and Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper

Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.

12.37.00 Harkness seals off the building

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie.

I challenge anybody to come up with a similar timeline that starts with Adams and Styles leaving the 4th floor 4 to 5 minutes after the shots and still incorporates all the available information correctly.

[Martin Weidmann]

The most important question that needs to be answered is: how and where could Victoria Adams have seen Shelley and Lovelady?

We know for a fact that, after the shots, Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles left the building by way of the stairs in the North West corner and the loading dock at the back of the building.

We also know for a fact that Shelley and Lovelady were at the front of the building when the shots rang out.

We have photographic evidence placing Victoria Adams at the front of the building confirming her testimony that she re-entered the building through the main entrance. She took the stairs to the second floor and walked through the office space to the North West corner where she took a freight elevator to the 4th floor. In other words, she never returned to the first floor

Shelley and Lovelady both confirm in their testimony that they entered the building through one of the loading doors on the first floor of the building.

The only time and place that Adams and Styles might have crossed paths with Shelley and Lovelady is in or near the parking lot West of the TSBD building!

Based on this information, how and where could Victoria Adams have seen Shelley and Lovelady inside the building?

[John Iacoletti]

Shelley is saying that as they were stood on the steps Gloria Calvery came up and told them about the shooting. Both he and Lovelady immediately went across to"that little,old island" (interestingly Lovelady uses the exact same phrase in his testimony).

Shelley said in his affidavit that he talked to Calvery across the street at the “corner of the park”, not on the steps.

[Martin Weidmann]

Shelley said in his affidavit that he talked to Calvery across the street at the “corner of the park”, not on the steps.

I'm not impressed with this affidavit as it is hardly precise and leaves things out.

With "across the street at the corner of the park" he most likely means the little traffic island between the parallel road alongside the TSBD and Elm street, where he and Lovelady, according to their testimony first went.

He leaves out completely that he went, with Lovelady, to the end of the dead end parallel street, where the people in charge of the TSBD had their car park.

This is typical for statements made immediately after such an event. People often can't wrap their mind around what has happened and have problems recollecting exactly what happened, so they leave out things. This is also why lawyers advise their clients not to give statements to the police when they get arrested.

[Dan O'meara]

I posted the following Gif in Reply #739. It's based on the work of Sandy Larsen and Tommy Graves and their identification of Gloria Calvery http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25790-the-identification-of-gloria-calvery-in-zapruder-and-darnell/



It shows the moment Calvery tells Lovelady (on the steps) about the assassination. It is my belief the man in the baggy black suit at the bottom of the steps is Bill Shelley. Larsen and Graves put forward a compelling case for the identification of Calvery and, if accepted, we can state the following:
Shelley and Lovelady lie in both their affidavits and WC testimony.
Calvery, Shelley and Lovelady are at the steps at the same time Baker races past Truly (it seems to me that Shelley is looking directly at Baker as he approaches).

When they get their stories straight for the WC Shelley and Lovelady state that Calvery doesn't reach them for 3 or 4 minutes. The Gif shows this is a lie as does the fact Lovelady states Calvery comes running up and she only has about 100ft to travel, easily bringing her to the steps at the same time as Baker.
Shelley and Lovelady state they make their way to "the little, old island" (both use this exact phrase) in front of the TSBD. I believe they are here for 3 or 4 minutes for the following reason - after leaving the island they "walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while". This would have them at the west corner of the TSBD by the spur track, exactly the same place Adams and Styles walk by after their conversation with the police officer who won't let them pass. As they never meet I'm assuming Adams and Styles have already passed this position by the time Shelley and Lovelady get there.
From Sandra Styles' FBI 302 provided by John Iacoletti (reply #725) it appears Styles goes straight into the building and uses the passenger elevator to get back to her office. Adams stays outside, chatting to colleagues, at some point she hears the messge on the police motorcycle radio and has to talk her way past a police officer to get in the building. Once inside she tries the passenger elevator but it doesn't work so she walks up to the second floor. That she is free to use the elevator is possibly important in the timeline of Shelley.
After a short while by the spur track Shelley and Lovelady enter the TSBD through a side door at the west end of the building. At some point, as Shelley states, "Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway." He says elevator, singular, he says exactly the same thing in his affidavit, which implies the passenger elevator. If it is the case he is guarding the passenger elevator then this must be after Adams has tried to use it, found the power was off, then used the stairs.

Provisional Timeline

12:30                      Final shot

12:30.30 - 12:31     Calvery arrives running to the TSBD steps, tells Shelley and Lovelady about the assassination.
                              Baker races past Truly and into the building followed by Truly.
                              Adams and Styles hit the stairs and race out of the Back door
                              Baker/Truly reach freight elevators then begin running up stairs

12:31 - 12:32          Shelley/Lovelady go across to "little,old island"
                              Baker/Truly lunchroom encounter (?)
                              Adams/Styles encounter with police officer at the spur track

12:32 - 12:34          Adams/Styles round the front west corner of TSBD
                              Shelley/Lovelady make their way to the same corner

12:34 - 12:36          Styles makes her way inside, no officer on the door, takes the elevator
                              Adams chats with colleagues out front
                              Shelley/Lovelady enter side door
12:36 - 12:38          Adams hears radio message and tries to get back in but has to talk her way past a police officer. She tries elevator then uses stairs
                              Shelley/Lovelady enter first floor
                              At some point shortly after this Shelley is told to guard the elevators and stairway.

Remember - it's only provisional.