The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Colin Crow on July 30, 2020, 02:45:07 AM ---I don’t know exactly what happened. All I can try and show is that the official statements, when analysed, are not consistent with the final version of events that appear in the Warren Report. Also Williams, Norman and Jarman lied repeatedly about Williams movements, the former's story diverging significantly from the other two from Nov 23 until the time of their appearance before the commission. This occurred just after Ball and Belin travelled to Dallas to "sort things out" for the lone nut scenario.
--- End quote ---
Both the WC and HSCA were covering up things. For example, the HSCA never asked white house photographer Robert Knuden if he had taken photos at JFKs autopsy, even though he had admitted to in Newsweek in 1977.
Why didn't they ask him?
Maybe they knew he had secretly taken photos and didn't want the public to know. In which case, best not to ask him on the public record.
Colin Crow:
--- Quote from: Alan Ford on July 30, 2020, 12:07:19 AM ---A bit of a reach, Mr Crow!
--- End quote ---
Just trying to provide a possible reason for Rowland to describe someone wearing green and red clothing.
Can we agree that at least one TSBD employee had some encounter with an assassin or conspirator on the 6th floor before the shooting?
Alan Ford:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on July 30, 2020, 01:05:51 AM ---Or...
Williams is a co-conspirator who has to own up to it being his lunch because his fingerprints were probably found on the bottle that was tested for fingerprints but was discarded because they weren't Oswald's.
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Mr Williams' fingerprints were possibly found on the bottle. Just as possible that A.N.Other's (non-employee) were found on it--------and that this was the reason it was discarded...
There is no real evidence the chicken bones/bottle had anything to do with Mr Williams---or even, for that matter, the assassination. His strained attempts in his WC testimony to tie himself to them are a complete mess.
--- Quote ---This amazingly important evidence was then destroyed. Mooney places the half eaten chicken in the SN, indicating Williams was interrupted having his lunch. Interrupted by the unexpected arrival of Jarman and Norman on the fifth which he has to check out. This doesn't happen until very close to the arrival of the motorcade on Houston (Norman, Jarman and Truly testify to the late decision to go up to the fifth floor). He arrives at the 5th floor window seconds before the motorcade turns off Main Street and has to take control of the situation.
Wiliams' excuse for being up on the 6th floor is that the others had talked about going up there to watch the motorcade, something that nobody else confirms. He made it up to justify his presence there.
Jarman and Norman are forced into lying about where Williams was. Givens is forced into lying about seeing Oswald on the 6th
Williams was sat in the SN with an assassin, very probably the man with the rifle Rowland saw.
IMO 8)
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Your scenario does have the large merit of internal coherence, Mr O'Meara, but pinning Mr Williams as a co-conspirator seems to me to leave unaddressed a number of issues, such as the lack of fit between Mr Williams and Mr Rowland's 'elderly Negro'; Mr Rowland's sighting of two black men at the fifth floor window ~12.15pm; the improbability/absurdity of his claimed lunchtime victuals (chicken-on-the-bone sandwich); the lucky happenstance of Messrs Norman & Jarman deciding to go up to the fifth and not sixth floor (the more obvious vantage point, with or without any prior discussion amongst co-workers); Mr Williams' utter failure (odd in a co-conspirator) to say anything to incriminate Mr Oswald.
My read on Mr Williams is that the poor guy was majorly spooked out by something he saw shortly before the assassination--------or rather: it spooked him out once the assassination happened and he realised its true significance. And I suspect he was not the only employee to have had this experience.
FWIW! Thumb1:
Alan Ford:
--- Quote from: Colin Crow on July 30, 2020, 02:45:07 AM ---As for the claim about employees mentioning returning to the 6th floor to watch, as far as I know only Williams mentioned this and he claimed Lovelady and Arce were involved.
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Fair point, Mr Crow, but one could let it cut the other way-------------i.e. that Mr Williams was the only one to let slip what employees had arranged. Isn't it odd that other floors (5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd) were chosen by employees as vantage points but not the sixth-------which just so happened to be the floor where the action would be? I find it highly unlikely that this would have been left to chance. The weapon-holding man spotted by Mr Rowland at the southwest window sounds like a member of an assassination team secure in the knowledge that the floor belongs to them.
--- Quote ---I don’t know exactly what happened. All I can try and show is that the official statements, when analysed, are not consistent with the final version of events that appear in the Warren Report. Also Williams, Norman and Jarman lied repeatedly about Williams movements, the former's story diverging significantly from the other two from Nov 23 until the time of their appearance before the commission. This occurred just after Ball and Belin travelled to Dallas to "sort things out" for the lone nut scenario.
--- End quote ---
We are in full concurrence, Mr Crow, about the tremendous significance both of Mr Rowland's testimony and of the problems with Mr Williams' ever-evolving story! Thumb1:
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Alan Ford on July 30, 2020, 09:15:27 AM ---the lucky happenstance of Messrs Norman & Jarman deciding to go up to the fifth and not sixth floor (the more obvious vantage point, with or without any prior discussion amongst co-workers); Mr Williams' utter failure (odd in a co-conspirator) to say anything to incriminate Mr Oswald.
--- End quote ---
I sense a slight racial profiling there. Three black men together - must be up to something. Actually the three guys gave televised interviews over the years. That's a strong indication that they had done nothing wrong. Guilty people do not give televised interviews, they tend to avoid interviews like the plague.
One escape route that Oswald (or someone else if Oswald was innocent) could have used to escape from the 6th floor was on top of one of the elevators. If both elevators were on the 5th floor at the time of the shooting, as recalled by Baker and Truly, couldn't a 6th floor assassin simply have opened the elevator gate on the 6th floor and climbed onto the roof of the elevators. He could then ride the elevator down to the 1st floor (which is what Dougherty did) which would enable Oswald to get off on the floor above which was the second floor.
This might explain why Oswald then ran into the 2nd floor lunch room ahead of Baker and Truly for the 2nd floor lunch room encounter to take place.
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