If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Martin Weidmann]

They're still likely to be accurate to within 90 seconds or so i'm presuming though?

This is what James C. Bowles, the man in charge of the Dallas Police dispatchers, told the HSCA;

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

In addition to the times stamped on calls by telephone operators, the radio operators stamped the "time" as calls were dispatched, and the "time" that officers completed an assignment and returned to service. Radio operators were also furnished with 12-hour digital clocks to facilitate their time references when they were not using call sheets containing stamped time. These digital clocks were not synchronized with any time standard. Therefore, the time "actual" and time "broadcast" could easily be a minute or so apart.

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles1.html#set


Btw, we know from their testimony that Shelley and Lovelady re-entered the TSBD about five minutes after the shots. Sgt Harkness, in his testimony, states that he sealed off the back entrance of the TSBD at around 12.36 or 12.37.

If, as you assumed earlier, Adams and Styles waited several minutes on the 4th floor, before coming down the stairs and seeing Shelley and Lovelady (who were not there until approx 12.35), have you already figured out how Adams and Styles could leave the building, run to the railway yard where a policeman turned them back, walked to the front of the building and subsequently to the main enterance, on the other side of the building, where Adams heard the radio call and then walked down Houston street to the loading dock where she re-entered the TSBD prior to the building being sealed off by Sgt Harkness at around 12.36 or 12.37?

[Jack Nessan]

Styles and Adams never ran over to the railroad yard. They were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumeably Sargeant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."

There is a railroad spur running parallel to the dock behind the TSBD. That is where Adams encountered the officer.

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Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD and returned to the front of the building:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."

Adams and Styles never went over to the Railroad Yard.

[Martin Weidmann]

Styles and Adams never ran over to the railroad yard. They were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumeably Sargeant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."

There is a railroad spur running parallel to the dock behind the TSBD. That is where Adams encountered the officer.

------------------------------

Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD and returned to the front of the building:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."

Adams and Styles never went over to the Railroad Yard.

Styles and Adams never ran over to the railroad yard. They were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumeably Sargeant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

BS.. Nobody said they ran over to the railroad yard. They ran towards it. There is a difference. Sgt Harkness was in front of the TSBD until 12.36 when he passed a message on to the DPD dispatcher. If the girls were stopped behind the TSBD, they would have turned around and re-entered to building. They did no such thing.

Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.

If an officer had stopped the girls behind the TSBD, they would never have had the possibility to go to the front of the building.


Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD and returned to the front of the building:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."


More BS... Sandra Styles did not confirm the encounter took place "at the rear of the TSBD". She told the FBI that they went around to the side of the building

Which fits perfectly with Adams saying she did not go back the same way she came out the building, but instead went to the front of the building. Styles actually tells the FBI exactly that.... the policeman told her "to go around to the front of the building"

The bottom line is that the girls came down the stairs at the North West corner of the building, let the TSBD by going down the stairs at the North East said of the loading platform. They then ran towards the railway yard and encountered a police office somewhere between the North West corner of the building and the railway yard. He told them to go back and they walked along the side of the building towards the street that runs parallel to the TSBD, turned left and walked along the front of the building towards the entrance, where Adams overheard the message of Sgt Harkness to the DPD dispatcher at around 12.36. Exactly what I have been saying the time line shows.

If you want the girls to be up on the 4th floor until 4 to 5 minutes after the shots (i.e. 12.34 or 12.35), they wouldn't have had the time to do all that before 12.36 when Harkness transmitted his message to the DPD dispatcher.

If you want to punch a hole in the time line you need to come up with something better than this cherry picked stuff.

[Jack Nessan]

Styles and Adams never ran over to the railroad yard. They were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumeably Sargeant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

BS.. Nobody said they ran over to the railroad yard. They ran towards it. There is a difference. Sgt Harkness was in front of the TSBD until 12.36 when he passed a message on to the DPD dispatcher. If the girls were stopped behind the TSBD, they would have turned around and re-entered to building. They did no such thing.

Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.

If an officer had stopped the girls behind the TSBD, they would never have had the possibility to go to the front of the building.


Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD and returned to the front of the building:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."


More BS... Sandra Styles did not confirm the encounter took place "at the rear of the TSBD". She told the FBI that they went around to the side of the building

Which fits perfectly with Adams saying she did not go back the same way she came out the building, but instead went to the front of the building. Styles actually tells the FBI exactly that.... the policeman told her "to go around to the front of the building"

The bottom line is that the girls came down the stairs at the North West corner of the building, let the TSBD by going down the stairs at the North East said of the loading platform. They then ran towards the railway yard and encountered a police office somewhere between the North West corner of the building and the railway yard. He told them to go back and they walked along the side of the building towards the street that runs parallel to the TSBD, turned left and walked along the front of the building towards the entrance, where Adams overheard the message of Sgt Harkness to the DPD dispatcher at around 12.36. Exactly what I have been saying the time line shows.

If you want the girls to be up on the 4th floor until 4 to 5 minutes after the shots (i.e. 12.34 or 12.35), they wouldn't have had the time to do all that before 12.36 when Harkness transmitted his message to the DPD dispatcher.

If you want to punch a hole in the time line you need to come up with something better than this cherry picked stuff.

No, she  makes absolutely no mention of the railroad yard. She left no room for doubt.

Styles: "...went down the backstairs and left the building at the back door (Houston Street) and went around to the side of the building (behind the TSBD) where we saw a policeman..."

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Adams states where they were going and they did not get very far.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
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You said they ran to the Railroad yard. You stated they were stopped in the RR Yard.


Weidmann reply #674 to Gerry Down

"How in the world do you come up with BS like this. In all her known statements Adams is crystal clear that she and Styles came down the stairs, turned left and stepped out onto the loading dock at the back of the TSBD. Both then ran to the railroad yard where they were stopped by a police officer who told them to return to the TSBD. Adams then went back from the railroad yard along the front of the building where she saw several TSBD employees and overheard a police radio."

Your statement never happened. Nothing in their statements could even lead a person to believe what you posted.

The only ones who punched holes in your timeline are Harkness, Adams, and Styles.

[Martin Weidmann]

No, she  makes absolutely no mention of the railroad yard. She left no room for doubt.

Styles: "...went down the backstairs and left the building at the back door (Houston Street) and went around to the side of the building (behind the TSBD) where we saw a policeman..."

------------------------------------------------------

Adams states where they were going and they did not get very far.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
----------------------------------

You said they ran to the Railroad yard. You stated they were stopped in the RR Yard.


Weidmann reply #674 to Gerry Down

"How in the world do you come up with BS like this. In all her known statements Adams is crystal clear that she and Styles came down the stairs, turned left and stepped out onto the loading dock at the back of the TSBD. Both then ran to the railroad yard where they were stopped by a police officer who told them to return to the TSBD. Adams then went back from the railroad yard along the front of the building where she saw several TSBD employees and overheard a police radio."

Your statement never happened. Nothing in their statements could even lead a person to believe what you posted.

The only ones who punched holes in your timeline are Harkness, Adams, and Styles.

Just how pathetic can you be? Because I used the word "where" instead "when" in one post, you dismiss everything that's in front of you?

So, they encountered the police man (at the side of the building) before getting to the railroad yard. So what? It still makes no major difference to the time line. To get to the front of the building, where Adams said she was when she heard the radio message at 12.36 the girls still had to go around the building and back in those days there was an extention to the building which reached nearly to the entrance of the car park at the end of the parallel road.

Going around the building would have taken them at least 4 to 5 minutes and Adams said she was at the front entrance when she heard the 12.36 radio call. It's  easy to figure out, yet you seem to be struggling because of your bias.

You can't even explain how, in your foolish opinion, Harkness, Adams and Styles punch holes in my timeline.

Here is a floor plan of the first floor of the TSBD and adjacent buildings.....

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/18/50/79/06/1st_fl10.jpg

Try to retrace the route Adams and Styles took..... Go on then

And one more thing;

No, she  makes absolutely no mention of the railroad yard. She left no room for doubt.

Styles: "...went down the backstairs and left the building at the back door (Houston Street) and went around to the side of the building (behind the TSBD) where we saw a policeman..."

I haven't seen her FBI 302 statement, but I don't believe for a second that Sandra Styles told the FBI what you have written in brackets. Why don't you show us the 302 for that interview?

The side of the building is not "behind the TSBD"! And the back door of the building isn't on Houston Street either. It's on the loading dock at the back of the building.

Do you really believe you can fool anybody with this kind of BS?

And a final comment;

I am trying to work out a time line that comprises of all the available evidence, without any witness having to lie. I'm doing that for myself and those who are truly interested in it and have an open mind. I am not doing it for a WC defender with a bias who needs to cherry pick and misrepresent to pathetically challenge the time line, without actually being able to provide an alternative version that fits all the evidence.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything as it is perfectly clear that you couldn't be convinced if all the participants would stand before you and told you what actually happened. You just believe what you want to believe....and I'll just pity you!

[Jack Nessan]

Just how pathetic can you be? Because I used the word "where" instead "when" in one post, you dismiss everything that's in front of you?

So, they encountered the police man (at the side of the building) before getting to the railroad yard. So what? It still makes no major difference to the time line. To get to the front of the building, where Adams said she was when she heard the radio message at 12.36 the girls still had to go around the building and back in those days there was an extention to the building which reached nearly to the entrance of the car park at the end of the parallel road.

Going around the building would have taken them at least 4 to 5 minutes and Adams said she was at the front entrance when she heard the 12.36 radio call. It's  easy to figure out, yet you seem to be struggling because of your bias.

You can't even explain how, in your foolish opinion, Harkness, Adams and Styles punch holes in my timeline.

Here is a floor plan of the first floor of the TSBD and adjacent buildings.....

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/18/50/79/06/1st_fl10.jpg

Try to retrace the route Adams and Styles took..... Go on then

And one more thing;

No, she  makes absolutely no mention of the railroad yard. She left no room for doubt.

Styles: "...went down the backstairs and left the building at the back door (Houston Street) and went around to the side of the building (behind the TSBD) where we saw a policeman..."

I haven't seen her FBI 302 statement, but I don't believe for a second that Sandra Styles told the FBI what you have written in brackets. Why don't you show us the 302 for that interview?

The side of the building is not "behind the TSBD"! And the back door of the building isn't on Houston Street either. It's on the loading dock at the back of the building.

Do you really believe you can fool anybody with this kind of BS?

And a final comment;

I am trying to work out a time line that comprises of all the available evidence, without any witness having to lie. I'm doing that for myself and those who are truly interested in it and have an open mind. I am not doing it for a WC defender with a bias who needs to cherry pick and misrepresent to pathetically challenge the time line, without actually being able to provide an alternative version that fits all the evidence.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything as it is perfectly clear that you couldn't be convinced if all the participants would stand before you and told you what actually happened. You just believe what you want to believe....and I'll just pity you!

I am sorry Martin that the whole Adams- Styles timeline thing didn't work out for you. Damn that Adams, Styles, and Harkness for ruining that for you.

I have a new for you to work on while I am gone. I did not know Harkness also pantsed Rowland about a second person in the SN. One other person showing Rowland just made up the story.

Mr. BELIN - Did you actually talk to any other person whose name you recorded in your little book there?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir; Arnold Rowland.
Mr. BELIN - Arnold Rowland?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did he say?
Mr. HARKNESS - He said that he saw a man on one of those floors. He didn't clearly identify it, as he saw a man with a high-powered rifle walking around up there.
Mr. BELIN - Did he say anything else that you could have recorded there?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else you remember?
Mr. HARKNESS - Except his address. I have his address as 3026 Hammerly.
Mr. BELIN - Did he say anything else?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir.

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.

The railroad yard is not mentioned, it doesn't have anything to do with anything. Adams is saying that after leaving the Houston Street dock she (and Styles) went left (east) towards the railroad tracks. If we assume the spur running around the back of the TSBD is the track in question she doesn't get very far before being stopped by the police officer. They are nowhere near the railroad yard which is why it isn't mentioned by anyone. She gets into a conversation with this officer and accepts she has to go back into the TSBD. Although its's quicker to go back the way they came to get in the building Adams wants to go round to the front entrance. They make there way round the building to the street that runs directly in front of the TSBD. After this Adam's testimony is littered with phrases indicating she was in no rush to get back in:

"Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building."
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot."

She wanders round to the front of the building, spots some of her colleagues and strikes up her second conversation after coming out of the building.

"There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor."

It seems clear from her testimony she was in no rush to get back inside, the idea she stood around for 3 or 4 minutes on the fourth floor is incompatible with her testimony. She makes it absolutely clear time and again she leaves within seconds of the last shot and is corroborated by Styles and Garner. Also Garner's statement of hearing the girls go down the stairs and seeing Baker come up those same stairs invalidates the 3 to 4 minute interval, as does Adam's sudden, overwhelming need to find out what's going on.
The timeline has Adams racing out of the building @ 12:01, making her way towards the tracks round the back of the TSBD, getting into a conversation with a police officer, making her way round to the front of the TSBD (presumably in no big hurry any longer), getting into a conversation with colleagues and stood around until she hears the message on the police radio.
Adams does not see Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor as she and Styles race out of the building. The timeline (not to mention the work of Barry Ernest) establishes that.


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