If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Martin Weidmann]

I have no time for your nonsense, you're now on ignore.

JohnM

Go back to reply # 638

Or are you simply looking for a reason to run away from the evidence?

The irony of it all is that my timeline, based on actual testimony, shows that Adams and Styles could in fact have arrived on the 1st floor and left the building before Truly and Baker got to the stairs. It would have been a matter of seconds, but it could have happened that way.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Thanks, the Biffle abbreviated quotes and info seem to be a direct lift from Brennan's affidavit?

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Howard Leslie Brennan, Address 6814 Woodard, Dallas, Texas Age 44 , Phone No. EV 1-2713
Deposes and says:

I am presently employed by the Wallace and Beard Construction Company as a Steam fitter and have been so employed for about the past 7 weeks. I am working on a pipe line in the Katy Railroad yards at the West end of Pacific Street near the railroad tracks. We had knocked off for lunch and I had dinner at the cafeteria at Record and Main Street and had come back to see the President of the United States. I was sitting on a ledge or wall near the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street near the red light pole. I was facing in a northerly direction looking across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east end of [sic] the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President's car arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30's, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definately [sic] not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President's car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President's back was in line with the last windows I have previously described I heard what I thought was a back fire. It run [sic] in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know if it had a scope on it or not. I was looking at the man in this windows at the time of the last explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry. I could see this man from about his belt up. There was nothing unusual about him at all in appearance. I believe that I could identify this man if I ever saw him again.

/s/ H. L. Brennan

/s/ C. M. Jones
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

JohnM

How would Biffle have obtained a sworn statement made to the police the day before?

Biffle quotes Brennan; he puts his statements in quotation marks, which normally implies that the speaker made the comments to the journalist, unless another audience is specified, which it is not here. And the quoted statements differ in several respects from Brennan's DPD statement, which again suggests that Brennan actually spoke with Biffle and that Biffle was quoting what Brennan told him. Let's read what Biffle quoted Brennan as saying:

"After the first shot, I looked up and saw him. The gun was sticking out the window. I saw him fire a second time. He was a slender guy, a nice looking guy. He didn't seem to be in no hurry."

This is a fraction of what Brennan told the DPD.

Also, notice the slang "didn't seem to be in no hurry," which is not how this sentence is worded in the DPD statement.

And then there is the obvious point that Biffle did not claim that he was quoting a DPD affidavit or that he was repeating what had been leaked to him by a DPD source.

The plain-sense, logical implication is that Brennan spoke with Biffle, as did numerous other witnesses, and that Biffle was quoting what Brennan told him, which in turn destroys Brennan's belated tale that he did not ID Oswald because he feared retribution from accomplices.

[Martin Weidmann]

How would Biffle have obtained a sworn statement made to the police the day before?

Biffle quotes Brennan; he puts his statements in quotation marks, which normally implies that the speaker made the comments to the journalist, unless another audience is specified, which it is not here. And the quoted statements differ in several respects from Brennan's DPD statement, which again suggests that Brennan actually spoke with Biffle and that Biffle was quoting what Brennan told him. Let's read what Biffle quoted Brennan as saying:

"After the first shot, I looked up and saw him. The gun was sticking out the window. I saw him fire a second time. He was a slender guy, a nice looking guy. He didn't seem to be in no hurry."

This is a fraction of what Brennan told the DPD.

Also, notice the slang "didn't seem to be in no hurry," which is not how this sentence is worded in the DPD statement.

And then there is the obvious point that Biffle did not claim that he was quoting a DPD affidavit or that he was repeating what had been leaked to him by a DPD source.

The plain-sense, logical implication is that Brennan spoke with Biffle, as did numerous other witnesses, and that Biffle was quoting what Brennan told him, which in turn destroys Brennan's belated tale that he did not ID Oswald because he feared retribution from accomplices.

The plain-sense, logical implication is that Brennan spoke with Biffle, as did numerous other witnesses, and that Biffle was quoting what Brennan told him, which in turn destroys Brennan's belated tale that he did not ID Oswald because he feared retribution from accomplices.

Which is exactly why Collins, "Mytton" and other non-truth seekers will deny at all cost that Brennan ever talked to a reporter and instead claim - without a shred of evidence - that the information was leaked by the DPD or, even worse, that the reporter somehow got a copy of a Notarized Affidavit....

[John Mytton]

The most important evidence that keeps getting ignored is Adams own testimony that she saw and later corrected, confirming that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the way out, and to suggest that Adams made a massive mistake and saw Lovelady and Shelley much later on the way in is desperation at its best.



And the fact that the above story is 100% corroborated when Adams tells the exact same detailed story again to Leavelle is just the icing on the cake.



So in conclusion, the fact that Adams confirms on two separate occasions that she saw Lovelady and Shelley before she left the building has to be the considered evidence and under the incredibly unique once in a lifetime circumstances, any minor time discrepancies of when the girls left the forth floor pale into insignificance. And as for Lovelady, he couldn't confirm that he saw Adams but he did see a woman which when coupled with Adams testimony means that he must have seen Vickie.
Case Closed!

JohnM

[Bill Chapman]

John, you are a man with a keen eye for detail, what is your take on the History Channel reenactment of the timing? Apart from the bizarre removal of any landings between floors in the cartoon (and not allowing for in the building used), do you notice any "editing" problems.

Have you tried, for starters, to see how long it takes to cover 9 steps?

[Gerry Down]

The most important evidence that keeps getting ignored is Adams own testimony that she saw and later corrected, confirming that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the way out, and to suggest that Adams made a massive mistake and saw Lovelady and Shelley much later on the way in is desperation at its best.



And the fact that the above story is 100% corroborated when Adams tells the exact same detailed story again to Leavelle is just the icing on the cake.



So in conclusion, the fact that Adams confirms on two separate occasions that she saw Lovelady and Shelley before she left the building has to be the considered evidence and under the incredibly unique once in a lifetime circumstances, any minor time discrepancies of when the girls left the forth floor pale into insignificance. And as for Lovelady, he couldn't confirm that he saw Adams but he did see a woman which when coupled with Adams testimony means that he must have seen Vickie.
Case Closed!

JohnM

Adams signed her own death warrant with that one.

Consequently, anything she said to Barry Earnst goes up in smoke, as does his book.

[Martin Weidmann]

The most important evidence that keeps getting ignored is Adams own testimony that she saw and later corrected, confirming that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the way out, and to suggest that Adams made a massive mistake and saw Lovelady and Shelley much later on the way in is desperation at its best.



And the fact that the above story is 100% corroborated when Adams tells the exact same detailed story again to Leavelle is just the icing on the cake.



So in conclusion, the fact that Adams confirms on two separate occasions that she saw Lovelady and Shelley before she left the building has to be the considered evidence and under the incredibly unique once in a lifetime circumstances, any minor time discrepancies of when the girls left the forth floor pale into insignificance. And as for Lovelady, he couldn't confirm that he saw Adams but he did see a woman which when coupled with Adams testimony means that he must have seen Vickie.
Case Closed!

JohnM

The most important evidence that keeps getting ignored is Adams own testimony that she saw and later corrected, confirming that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the way out,

That's only "the most important evidence" for you....because you need it to keep your fairytale alive. In reality you're only cherry-picking the evidence you like.

And the fact that the above story is 100% corroborated when Adams tells the exact same detailed story again to Leavelle is just the icing on the cake.

You've got it backwards... Leavelle showed up unannounced at Vickie Adams's house in February 1964. It is with him that the Shelley/Lovelady thing got started. Prior to that Vickie Adams never said a word to anybody about seeing both men. It was Leavelle who wrote in his report: "I saw mr. Shelley and another employee named Bill. Vickie never saw or signed that report, which the WC subsequently used to discredit her as a witness.

Vickie Adams never said to anybody that she saw Shelley and Lovelady at the moment she came off the stairs. She just said she did see them, and that was true.

So in conclusion, the fact that Adams confirms on two separate occasions that she saw Lovelady and Shelley before she left the building has to be the considered evidence and under the incredibly unique once in a lifetime circumstances, any minor time discrepancies of when the girls left the forth floor pale into insignificance. And as for Lovelady, he couldn't confirm that he saw Adams but he did see a woman which when coupled with Adams testimony means that he must have seen Vickie.

Yeah right .....so, Adams & Styles must have stayed on the 4th floor at least 4 minutes after the shots, Adams must have lied FBI agents Hardin and Scott on 11/24/63, Dorothy Garner must have lied to Barefoot Sanders and Shelley and Lovelady must have lied in their testimony about not seeing Adams (they don't even mention Styles) or even being near the stairs exit. And all those lies must have been for what?

You do understand that you are desperately clinging to an unverified statement by Leavelle and a slight confusion by Adams herself about when exactly she saw both men, against a mountain of evidence that confirms to anybody with a functional brain that you not only are but must be completely wrong?