Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964  (Read 13012 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 09:26:17 PM »
Advertisement
Police ID initials disappeared.....


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 09:26:17 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2020, 09:37:12 PM »
'But don't take my word'

LOL

No problem

Cunningham testified to this about ejecting the shells:
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.

"Difficult .... to extract" due to a "balloning" of the shells. Oswald used "undersized" bullets that expanded or "ballooned" upon firing. They would then "stick" and he would have to shake them out. Witnesses saw him shaking the revolver to remove them.

Those shells that stuck were of two types and were the same type of bullets founds on Oswald when he was arrested.

And ballistic tests done on the revolver using this smaller ammunition showed this to happen.

Here is Cunningham's full testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/cunningham1.htm

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10812
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2020, 09:46:10 PM »
Cunningham testified to this about ejecting the shells:
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.

He did indeed, but then Eisenberg noted,

Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge cases merely by one push of the ejector rod.

Quote
Those shells that stuck were of two types and were the same type of bullets founds on Oswald when he was arrested.

Nope.  The shells "found" in Oswald pocket hours after his arrest were all Winchesters.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 09:48:29 PM by John Iacoletti »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2020, 09:46:10 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2020, 10:35:21 PM »
He did indeed, but then Eisenberg noted,

Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge cases merely by one push of the ejector rod.

Nope.  The shells "found" in Oswald pocket hours after his arrest were all Winchesters.


Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge cases merely by one push of the ejector rod.

In which case Tippit's killer wouldn't have walked a few steps and removed a shell and tossed it aside, and then walked a little farther and then removed another spent shell....

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2020, 11:06:56 PM »
Quote
Mr. BELIN - About my size? I am standing up.
  ... I am between 5' 10" and 5' 11". Closer to 5' 11", I believe.
 Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size....
Mr. BELIN - My color hair?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - You say he is my size, my weight, and my color hair?
Mr. BENAVIDES - He kind of looks like---well, his hair was a little bit curlier.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him that looked like me?................
Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car. ................
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.
 
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm
The shooter was David Belin's twin  :D
Quote
or the man that shot him
Does that sound like a positive ID?
A TV line-up with just one guy  :D

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2020, 11:06:56 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #61 on: April 10, 2020, 12:51:05 AM »
That's right....You can argue with FBI agent Cunningham's testimony.    He described how the spent shells are removed from the revolver that was found at the Texas Theater.  Since I'm sure that you would like to appear a little less ignorant, I'll find Cunningham's testimony and post it for your enlightenment.


Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any fired cartridges in the cylinder?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; I do. Prior to my appearance here today, this morning, I fired five cartridges in this weapon, and they are still in the cylinder.
Mr. EISENBERG. You are now placing an unfired--
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. An unfired cartridge in the sixth chamber of the cylinder. Now, in a normal way, you would hit the cylinder release, push in your hand like this, and tip it up. The unfired cartridge will fall right out into your hand, due to the fact that the chambers of the cylinder are naturally larger than the
cartridge you are loading in there for ease of putting them in. When you fire a cartridge in a revolver, the ease expands as wide as the cylinder. In other words, when the firing pin hits the primer, there is an explosion in the primer, the powder is ignited in the cartridge, and the terrific pressure will expand the cartridge case to tightly fit the chamber.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that when Mr. Cunningham tipped the revolver, the unfired bullet tipped out, but the five expended shells remained in.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that Mr. Cunningham extracted the five expended cartridge eases merely by one push of the ejector rod.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yon won't be able to see it again, but when you eject a cartridge ease later on for the powder pattern test, I will show that you can have residues of unburned powder. That is what would happen if you ejected
457
731-219 O--64--vol.III---30


these cartridge cases in your hand. You would pick up unburned powder, residues, and partially burned powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham had ejected five cartridge cases from the revolver into his hand, and his right hand is now filled with small black particles, whose composition I am unable to determine.
Representative FORD. That would happen any time that you did it?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; every time you eject them, these particles will come out from the cylinder into your hand--unburned powder, partially burned powder, and gunpowder residues.
Representative FORD. Had you fired this morning these particular bullets?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; at 8:15.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, these cartridge cases which you ejected were .38 Special cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were.
Mr. EISENBERG. What time did you fire those bullets, those .38 Special bullets in this revolver?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. At approximately 8:15 this morning.

Still no problem for me not taking your word

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2020, 03:08:45 AM »
Quote
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared T.F. Bowley w/m/35 of 1454 Summertime Lane, TE6 5965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

On Friday November 22, 1963 I picked up my daughter at the R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at about 12:55 pm. I then left the school to pick up my wife who was at work at the Telephone Company at Ninth Street and Zangs Street. I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene. When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it was. A few minutes later an ambulance came to the scene. I helped load the officer onto the stretcher and into the ambulance. As we picked the officer up, I noticed his pistol laying on the ground under him. Someone picked the pistol up and laid it on the hood of the squad car. When the ambulance left, I took the gun and put it inside the squad car. A man took the pistol out and said, "Let's catch him." He opened the cylinder, and I saw that no rounds in it had been fired. This man then took the pistol with him and got into a cab and drove off. The police arrived and I talked to a police sergeant at the scene I told him I did not witness the shooting and after questioning me, he said it was all right for me to leave. I then went on to the Telephone Company office at Ninth and Zangs.

/s/ T. F. Bowley

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 2 DAY OF December A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
That was Ted Callaway who may have very well committed a crime by taking that policeman's gun in the first place.
Quote
I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene.
With 'several people at the scene' already and it being 1:10 according to his watch it looks quite improbable if not impossible for Oswald to have been the shooter.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2020, 03:08:45 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Oswald killed Tippit -- Helen Markham confirms her ID on CBS 1964
« Reply #63 on: April 10, 2020, 03:43:41 AM »
Quote
BROCK advised he, WARREN REYNOLDS and various police officers from the Dallas Police Department had searched the parking lot directly behind Ballew's Texaco Service Station in efforts to locate the person responsible for the shooting, with negative results. BROCK advised, however, a Dallas, Texas, police officer, name unknown, had located a jacket underneath a 1954 Oldsmobile which was parked in parking space # 17. This jacket apparently had belonged to the person who had shortly before shot a Dallas police officer.

ROBERT BROCK was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he could not positively identify same as being identical with the individual who had passed him at Ballew's Texaco Service Station.
Quote
FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream.
Quote
Mr. BELIN. How many people were in the lineup, if you can remember?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Four.
Mr. BELIN. Four? Did any one of the people look anything like strike that. Did you identify anyone in the lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.
Mr. BELIN. You didn't know his name as Oswald at that time, did you, or did you not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes, the next day I did. But, of course I didn't know what his name was the day that I picked him out.
.......
Mr. BELIN. Had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald in the newspapers prior to the time you went to the police station lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I think I saw one in the morning paper......
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if the number 3 man in the lineup was wearing the same clothes that the man you saw at the Tippit shooting wore?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had on a different shirt, and he didn't have a jacket on. He had on kind of a polo shirt. 
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/scoggins.htm
So Scoggins saw a nameless picture in the paper and then went down and identified the guy in the picture?!?!
That does not compute.
Reading the testimony...it seems like Belin, Ford, and Dulles rattled Scoggins to his wits end.
BTW Where is a picture of Oswald wearing a 'polo shirt'?