Operation Mongoose

[Thomas Graves]

Oswald would be a perfect Castro assassination patsy to deflect attention towards the USSR, just wondering.

Yes, but why, then, did KGB triple-agent Aleksi Kulak (FBI's FEDORA) who duped J. Edgar Hoover for 15 years, go to the trouble of not only convincing JEH that that Golitsyn was "crazy" and Nosenko was "real deal," etc, but for purposes of this conversation temporarily convince JEH that Oleg Brykin of (FBI's TUMBLEWEED fame) at the U.N. was "Department 13"?

Look them up if you need to.

Hint: Guenter Schulz, Valery Kostikov, Ivan Obyedkov (mis-spelled "Byetkov" in Angleton's 1975 Church Committee testimony), Nikolai Leonov ("The Blond Oswald in Mexico City")

--  MWT   

[Colin Crow]

Yes, but why, then, did KGB triple-agent Aleksi Kulak (FBI's FEDORA) who duped J. Edgar Hoover for 15 years, go to the trouble of not only convincing JEH that that Golitsyn was "crazy" and Nosenko was "real deal," etc, but for purposes of this conversation temporarily convince JEH that Oleg Brykin of (FBI's TUMBLEWEED fame) at the U.N. was "Department 13"?

Look them up if you need to.

Hint: Guenter Schulz, Vaseli Kostikov, Ivan Obyedkov (mis-spelled "Byetkov" in Angleton's 1975 Church Committee testimony), Nikolai Leonov ("The Blond Oswald in Mexico City")

--  MWT   

Not sure you are following my drift Tommy. I am suggesting that Oswald would be a perfect patsy for a US plan to assassinate Castro. Just get him into Cuba at the appropriate time but no traceable US fingerprints. The supposed talked about invasion for December (see above post) possibly involved. My memory recalls some friction between Castro and Soviets in those times. Was it Castro looking to China that caused it? Can’t remember. In any event, little commie Russian defector would be cause for suspicion of a Soviet plan. Muddy the waters at least.

[Thomas Graves]

Not sure you are following my drift Tommy. I am suggesting that Oswald would be a perfect patsy for a US plan to assassinate Castro. Just get him into Cuba at the appropriate time but no traceable US fingerprints. The supposed talked about invasion for December (see above post) possibly involved. My memory recalls some friction between Castro and Soviets in those times. Was it Castro looking to China that caused it? Can’t remember. In any event, little commie Russian defector would be cause for suspicion of a Soviet plan. Muddy the waters at least.

Of course I am, Colin.

I'm one step ahead of you, though, and I'm trying to impart some knowledge to you (and the others reading this thread) I've acquired over the past few years about how the KGB may have been involved in the assassination (even if it "only" involved its training/programming of Oswald in the USSR, and Khrushchev's getting "cold feet" too late and being unable to call Oswald off the mission), and specifically how the KGB apparently went through an elaborate, fairly long-range procedure in planting a Kremlin-protecting WW III Virus in Oswald's CIA file on Tuesday, October 1, 1963, which "virus" ensured that egg-on-his-face and Armageddon-fearing J. Edgar Hoover would cover up any indications of same, seein' as how he feared that Oswald had ostensibly been in contact with KGB's ostensible head of sabotage and assassinations in the Western Hemisphere, Valeriy Kostikov.

In a nutshell, the only reason the FBI and CIA believed Kostikov was Department 13 was because a guy who turned out to be a loyal-to-the-Kremlin triple-agent, Aleksei Kulak (FEDORA), had told the FBI shortly before Oswald (allegedly) went to Mexico City that Oleg Brykin at the U.N. was ... Department 13.

Capiche?

Didn't think so. But don't feel bad -- nobody does. It's way too complicated, there are way too many Russian names, and I haven't even told you about the "Blond Oswald In Mexico City," yet.

(Hint: Nikolai Leonov)

--  MWT 

[John Tonkovich]

Of course I am, Colin.

I'm one step ahead of you, though, and I'm trying to impart some knowledge to you (and the others reading this thread) I've acquired over the past few years about how the KGB may have been involved in the assassination (even if it "only" involved its training/programming of Oswald in the USSR, and Khrushchev's getting "cold feet" too late and being unable to call Oswald off the mission), and specifically how the KGB apparently went through an elaborate, fairly long-range procedure in planting a Kremlin-protecting WW III Virus in Oswald's CIA file on Tuesday, October 1, 1963, which "virus" ensured that egg-on-his-face and Armageddon-fearing J. Edgar Hoover would cover up any indications of same, seein' as how he feared that Oswald had ostensibly been in contact with KGB's ostensible head of sabotage and assassinations in the Western Hemisphere, Valeriy Kostikov.

In a nutshell, the only reason the FBI and CIA believed Kostikov was Department 13 was because a guy who turned out to be a loyal-to-the-Kremlin triple-agent, Aleksei Kulak (FEDORA), had told the FBI shortly before Oswald (allegedly) went to Mexico City that Oleg Brykin at the U.N. was ... Department 13.

Capiche?

Didn't think so. But don't feel bad -- nobody does. It's way too complicated, there are way too many Russian names, and I haven't even told you about the "Blond Oswald In Mexico City," yet.

(Hint: Nikolai Leonov)

--  MWT 

So, the Soviets ( and Cubans?) made Oswald's Mexico City meetings ( with "them", I guess?) seem more damning, so that Hoover would ..make them less damning ( for him).
But, the Soviets and Cubans had already programmed Oswald as an assassin?
Ok.

( By the way, no, I do not approve of Putin. He's an evil man.)

[Thomas Graves]

So, the Soviets ( and Cubans?) made Oswald's Mexico City meetings ( with "them", I guess?) seem more damning, so that Hoover would ..make them less damning ( for him).
But, the Soviets and Cubans had already programmed Oswald as an assassin?
Ok.

( By the way, no, I do not approve of Putin. He's an evil man.)

Hang in there, friend.

I think you might "get" it eventually.

You're about halfway there right now.

--  MWT 

[John Tonkovich]

Hang in there, friend.

I think you might "get" it eventually.

You're about halfway there right now.

--  MWT 

Uh, that's ok, I don't want to get any farther than that.

Until you present something factual.
Thanks.

[Thomas Graves]

Uh, that's ok, I don't want to get any farther than that.

Until you present something factual.
Thanks.

I guess CIA and FBI docs gotten (by others) through the FOIA process aren't "factual" enough for you?

Do you believe we live in a FBI and CIA-controlled Deep State?

LOL

--  MWT 

Try reading this 35-page 20154 PDF written by a guy who was on the fast-track to becoming Director of CIA until false-defector Yuri Nosenko "walked in" in Vienna in June of 1962, and then "defected" to the U.S. eight weeks after the assassination of JFK, for general information on the modus operandi of the humanitarian organization known as the KGB after it created a top-secret "KGB within the KGB" (Department D of the First Chief Directorate, and Department 14 of the Second Chief Directorate) in 1959 ...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362

--  MWT