5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?

[Jack Nessan]

Mr. LIEBELER. So, you were standing directly in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on the same side of Elm Street that the Texas School Book Depository is located?
Mrs. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell me what you saw?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, after he passed us, then we heard a noise and I thought it was firecrackers, because I saw a shot or something hit the pavement.

---------------

Mr. LIEBELER. As you went down Elm Street that you saw this thing hit the street--what did it look like when you saw it?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, as I said, I thought it was a firecracker. It looked just like you could see the sparks from it and I just thought it was a firecracker and I was thinking that there was somebody was fixing to get in a lot of trouble and we thought the kids or whoever threw it were down below or standing near the underpass or back up here by the sign.


Another mistaken eyewitness?

JohnM

''.....kids or whoever threw it were down below or standing near the underpass or back up here by the sign. "

Throwing from the underpass? That is a long way from the Z160 location.

Standing by the sign? Funny that is where the firt shot, supported by all the eyewitness testimony, took place.

[John Iacoletti]

First of all, it’s the LNers who have all the “mistaken” (or “lying”) witnesses.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,100.0.html

Second of all, since when do you base a conclusion on what a single witness said? Only when it’s something that incriminates Oswald.

[John Mytton]

Second of all, since when do you base a conclusion on what a single witness said? Only when it’s something that incriminates Oswald.

What has non directional sparks have specifically to do with Oswald?

Btw, we get it "Iacoletti", we really do, you think that there is no evidence against Oswald, but how is your obsession of inserting Oswald into almost everyone of your posts going to help you solve this crime, or are you just happy being clueless?

JohnM

[Thomas Graves]

What has non-directional sparks have specifically to do with Oswald?

John,

Please tell us again how far down Elm Street you believe the limo was when Oswald fired his first of three shots.

Do you believe the "sparks" that were noticed by Virgie Baker were caused by a firecracker, or maybe by a second shooter?

Do you think it implausible that Oswald took a "potshot" through the foliage of a Southern Oak tree?

--  MWT 

PS  Regarding the bullet that exited (or entered?) JFK's throat, how much time do you think had elapsed between the firing of that shot and the capturing of JFK's agony in Altgens-6?

Enough time for Secret Service agent George Hickey to stand up and turn towards the TSBD?

"After a very short distance [after coming out of the Elm Street turn?] I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker. It appeared to come from the right and rear and seemed to me to be at ground level. I stood up and looked to my right and rear in an attempt to identify it. Nothing caught my attention except people shouting and cheering." (11/30/63)

Fwiw, I rather doubt that Hinkey was reacting to the "throat shot" that was captured by Altgens.

I think Hickey reacted to hearing the first shot, the shot that nicked a tree branch or two, hit the asphalt at a thirty-something degree angle, and was pulverized.

[Jack Nessan]

Virginia Baker (née Rackley) thought a bullet might have struck the pavement behind the limousine by the "first sign" and in the middle of the lane nearest the infield. It's unclear what sign she meant with reference to the pavement strike she thought she saw; I would go with the Thornton Fwy sign. I think she was referring to the Stemmon Sign in reference to the location of teenage boys who might have thrown out a firecracker (some goof-ball thing they do for fun in Texas to see guns drawn).

The only way I can see her testimony working is if the bullet actually hit the pavement behind the "Queen Mary". The gap between the "Queen Mary" and the LBJ convertible is pretty wide (relative to Baker) for some time. The gap allows her to see the lane near the infield.

Baker: "It looked just like you could see the sparks from it"

Doubtful a copper jacketed lead bullet can even cause a spark hitting the asphalt.

What kids are even in the area to throw a firecracker. Let alone throw it from he first choice, the underpass, which is at least 75 yards away.

The eyewitnesses state where the car was located when the first shot occurred and that JFK reacted to it. There is no mystery to it.

[Thomas Graves]

Baker: "It looked just like you could see the sparks from it"

Doubtful a copper jacketed lead bullet can even cause a spark hitting the asphalt.

What kids are even in the area to throw a firecracker. Let alone throw it from he first choice, the underpass, which is at least 75 yards away.

The eyewitnesses state where the car was located when the first shot occurred and that JFK reacted to it. There is no mystery to it.

Jack,

Good post.

Have you watched the "The Shot That Missed" segment of PBS NOVA's Cold Case: JFK?

The volcanic-like plume or ejection of pulverized asphalt from a 30° bullet strike on Elm Street was probably what Virgie Baker saw, and not knowing what had happened but assuming that it was a firecracker, how else was she to describe it?

In reality she couldn't have seen a firecracker explode near the limo, because she said she saw "sparks", and sparks are quite different from a small-but-bright explosion, and almost perfectly describe what she did see happen in the bright sunlight several yards down the street.

She might even have seen fragments of the pulverized bullet glistening briefly in the sunlight.

--  MWT 

[Thomas Graves]

Not a valid vimeo URL
Can't understand how Virgie Baker could see to the lane beside the infield while looking between the limousine and "Queen Mary". Using a map, I estimate the two cars are too close together for Baker to see between them Z125-onward.



Baker marked her position "1" and where the "bullet" struck "2". She could only see such a strike if both the Presidential limousine and "Queen Mary" were ahead of her line-of-sight. And maybe that's what she meant by "behind" the limousine, that she saw behind both cars.

Jerry,

Is the aerial photo you posted from the Warren Commission Report, or from somone's book?

If the former, does it have a CE number or somesuch thing?

--  MWT