Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination

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Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2020, 05:04:03 PM »
Not to get too deep into the Weeds of political theory but Ruth Paine sounds like a Trotskyite.

The Trotskyite Left in modern times has come to be defined as the anti-Communist Left (At least Communism as practiced by the Soviets).

They are on the Left for the most part but suspicious of the Radical Left or the Authoritarian/Stalinist Left.

Some Trotskyites voluntarily informed the FBI about radical Left movements in the 1960s.

The co-Founder of Amnesty International, Luis Kutner, is probably the most high profile example of that sort of thing. He informed the FBI about radical Left groups and other things. He was also a Mob lawyer and knew Jack Ruby.

http://ourhiddenhistory.org/entry/luis-kutner-the-declassified-life-of-a-human-rights-icon

Also, didn’t Marina Oswald testify a few years after the assassination that she was told by the Secret Service that Ruth was close to the CIA?
Yeah, like you warned, we can get into the swamps of political theorizing and really pretend like we know more than we do <g>.

Trotsky, of course, was a Marxist. But he broke with Stalin - and Stanlinist Soviet Union - after Lenin's death and for that Stalin had him killed. Many of his followers were, similarly, anti-Stalin and anti-Soviet. But Trotsky was still a Marxist and an atheist and a believer in violent revolution. It seems to me that Ruth's worldview - as a Quaker pacifist - was steeped in religion, in the Christian social gospel cause of applying Christ's teachings to modern social problems like poverty and racism, et cetera. So while she may sympathize with the Trotsky view on economic justice and the exploitation of man, I don't think she'd embrace his call for the need for a violent overthrow of capitalist systems. Trotsky wanted to hang bankers from lamp posts; I think Ruth wanted to convert them to Christianity.

Having said that, maybe I'm full of it by labeling her politically as a liberal/leftist. Perhaps it was entirely religiously-based. But her pro-Sandinista work (as I see it) certainly indicates a political component of her behavior. I do think she and to a lesser extent Michael believed that our differences with the Soviets could be worked out through conversation and reasoning.  Perhaps that not liberal/left "goo goo" thinking but just a faith in human beings.

And if I recall, I think either she or Michael said that Oswald called himself a Trotskyite.

As to Ruth and the CIA: Yes, but I think Marina was warned by the Secret Service that Ruth was associated with the FBI and Marina apparently thought she said CIA. I think that's in the McMillan book. I'll try and find it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 07:31:48 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2020, 05:04:03 PM »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2020, 06:00:10 PM »
Ruth Paine gives this account about her visits to Nicaragua and when she was accused of working for the CIA because of her involvement in the assassination (from the book "Mrs. Paine's Garage"):

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2020, 06:00:10 PM »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2020, 08:02:53 PM »
Michael Paine and Lee discussed capitalism and communism (from "Marina and Lee" by Priscilla Johnson McMillan):


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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2020, 08:02:53 PM »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2020, 08:37:25 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Galbraith.

Addendum:

Priscilla M applied to work for CIA.
Was U.S. Embassy translator, Moscow.
Marina and Lee was disavowed by..Marina.
Embellished her notes, story, when testifying before Warren Commision.
And more.
Definitely has an agenda.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2020, 08:37:25 PM »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2020, 11:49:54 PM »
Yeah, like you warned, we can get into the swamps of political theorizing and really pretend like we know more than we do <g>.

Trotsky, of course, was a Marxist. But he broke with Stalin - and Stanlinist Soviet Union - after Lenin's death and for that Stalin had him killed. Many of his followers were, similarly, anti-Stalin and anti-Soviet. But Trotsky was still a Marxist and an atheist and a believer in violent revolution. It seems to me that Ruth's worldview - as a Quaker pacifist - was steeped in religion, in the Christian social gospel cause of applying Christ's teachings to modern social problems like poverty and racism, et cetera. So while she may sympathize with the Trotsky view on economic justice and the exploitation of man, I don't think she'd embrace his call for the need for a violent overthrow of capitalist systems. Trotsky wanted to hang bankers from lamp posts; I think Ruth wanted to convert them to Christianity.

Having said that, maybe I'm full of it by labeling her politically as a liberal/leftist. Perhaps it was entirely religiously-based. But her pro-Sandinista work (as I see it) certainly indicates a political component of her behavior. I do think she and to a lesser extent Michael believed that our differences with the Soviets could be worked out through conversation and reasoning.  Perhaps that not liberal/left "goo goo" thinking but just a faith in human beings.

Great points.

And what I meant is that “Trotskyite” has become a nickname in modern times used broadly to describe  people on the Left who are strongly anti-Socialist or anti-Communist. I wasn’t arguing that she was a Marxist or Communist. I don’t know her well enough to say what her specific views are but broadly based on what is known about her life and views I think she’s probably of the anti-Communist Left.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 11:52:30 PM by Jon Banks »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2020, 11:49:54 PM »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2022, 01:45:15 AM »
Ruth Paine gives this account about her visits to Nicaragua and when she was accused of working for the CIA because of her involvement in the assassination (from the book "Mrs. Paine's Garage"):


Five weeks ago there was a presentation posted on the Ed Forum by Mr. Doudna that the following research details support.

.....
I shared the following details with Jim DiEugenio on November 15, 2015. It appears since then DiEugenio preferred to keep you from awareness of these facts.
Could it be because these facts are less prejudicial to Ruth Paine's rep?

Quote
http://www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf
Occurrence in Nicaragua - February/March 1991
The purpose of this paper is to document events which occurred in Managua, Nicaragua during February and March of 1991 involving Ruth Paine, U.S. coordinator of Pro-Nica, a project of the Southeastern Yearly Meeting of Friends (SEYM) based in St. Petersburg, Florida.
…...
During the next two or three weeks, Ruth, Jon and another person were at most gatherings of the U.S. solidarity community including regular meetings at the Benjamin Linder House, evening worship sessions held at the Moravian Church around the fast on the Iraq War, and a meeting of U.S. health workers held at the Linder House. 

(Link to Jon's obit: https://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/10/25/jonathan-roise-former-editor-in-chief-passes-away-at-67/
….
In 1990, Roise moved to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, to work as the director of the Quaker Center. He co-founded Sí a la Vida, an organization that aimed to provide street children with mentorship and structured lifestyles to transition them to autonomous adulthood. The organization went on to open two centers in Nicaragua...)

The third person, a young red headed man named Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations, including one by Benjamin Linders’ parents who visited the Casa during this period.  Ruth said Sean was a student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at El Centro de los Amigos and taking pictures for the Nicaragua Network.  Sean told some people he lived in Washington, D.C.

Quote
Ruth Paine was later found in Nicaragua helping the CIA's ... www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf of his head, and the other struck him in the back, exited through his throat and .... The third person, a young red headed man named. Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations ... student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at. El Centro de .... through for us.” Sue Wheaton.

Shawn Miller https://www.linkedin.com/pub/shawn-miller/9/9b/56b Instructional Systems Designer/ Courseware Lead/ Program Manager at Defense Acquisition University Washington D.C. Metro Area  ............ Antioch College B.A., Communications and International Studies 1988 – 1993 Activities and Societies: Graduated with distinction and Commencement Speaker for graduation class Antioch Record (Official College Newspaper) Editor-in-Chief Served as Assistant Community Manager Community Darkroom Manager Freelance photographer for Associated Press

Quote
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-miller-m-ed-56b09b9
Shawn Miller
Program Manager of Development & Production For e-Learning, Mobile & Simulations at Defense Acquisition University
Fort Belvoir, Virginia....
Continued...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 02:05:58 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2022, 01:45:15 AM »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2022, 02:02:26 AM »
Continued from my last post...

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/allen-dulles-first-ceo-of-the-secret-government/#comment-841119
TOM S.  DECEMBER 20, 2015 AT 7:10 PM
Part II of II

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-miller-56b09b9
Shawn Miller
………
Antioch College
B.A., Communications and International Studies
1988 – 1993

Activities and Societies: Graduated with distinction and Commencement Speaker for graduation class Antioch Record (Official College Newspaper) Editor-in-Chief Served as Assistant Community Manager Community Darkroom Manager Freelance photographer for Associated Press

Shawn Miller’s Face Book page is suprisingly public and photos confirm the hair color, as described by Wheaton/Jones.:
https://www.facebook.com/shawn.miller.54738

I see nothing suspicious about Jon Roise, either….. do you?

Jonathan Roise, former editor in chief, passes away at 67 …
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/10/25/jonathan-roise-former-editor-in-chief-passes-away-at-67/
The Stanford Daily
Oct 25, 2012 – He was 67. Roise, who enrolled at Stanford in 1963, led The Daily during the Vietnam War, a time of anti-war and anti-draft protests, teach-ins, …

Doesn’t anyone check the facts of the presentations they embrace? Dr. McAdams somehow knows everything is as it seems, and russtarby replies
with information he has not fully considered or verified but tends to fit a narrative.

This is Jfkfacts.org, can we have a unique culture, here, or try to cultivate one?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 02:04:03 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2022, 02:02:26 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2022, 09:23:35 AM »
So you don't think Paine was involved but then you go to imply that she was involved due apparently to "fear."  You make this allegation base on no evidence whatsoever. And  fear of what?  It's 2020.  When is Paine going to come forward and tell us that she was coerced into making certain statements.  If someone was influencing her testimony, why didn't they do the obvious if they were trying to frame Oswald like: get Paine to say that Oswald stored a rifle in her garage, that he hated JFK, that he acted strangely on the night before the assassination, and that she saw him carry a long bag on that morning?  That would have been very helpful.  Instead she doesn't do any of those things.  But she is suspect for some unspecified reason.
Quote
you go on to imply that she was involved...You make this allegation base on no evidence
No I didn't.  Return to post #70 and see for one's self.
She was afraid of course. The man accused of assassinating the president of the United States had stayed in her home. She did make some contradictory statements in her testimony [which was the longest of all the witnesses] 
Richard Smith's gaslight crap doesn't fly with me. He chooses to troll around and twist other's posts [due possibly to some abusive event in his childhood]
                 Pity ::)

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2022, 09:23:35 AM »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2022, 03:37:36 PM »
Continued from my last post...

i remember reading this at morley's place, tom.  has it been that long?  hope all is well+

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2022, 03:37:36 PM »

 

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