Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[Charles Collins]

Oh, I'm so happy that you attempted to rebut and discredit my observations.....

But Cortland Cunningham said that that is NOT the way the spent shells are removed from the 38 caliber Smith & Wesson.

Actually those are your words, not Cunningham's. Here is what he said:

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been re-chambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.

Yes, those are my words ....But they could be Cunningham's because they are simply a different way of stating that the S&W revolver is NOT UNLOADED ONE SPENT SHELL AT A TIME.   IOW..I have NOT changed the meaning of Cunningham's words.   He said that the spent shells in the chambers of the cylinder of the S&W  are all ejected at the same time by operating the ejector rod.  AND Cunningham said that the spent shells are very difficult to remove from the S&W in evidence.

1. Eisenberg asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells. [There are other ways that also work.]


Now it is YOU who is reading something into Eisenberg's question that was never implied....  Eisenberg simply asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells....  And yes there are other ways of removing spent shells from a S&W.... but all of them are not as simple as using the shell extractor. and the other methods require tools....  Tippit's killer was not reported to have been using any tool to remove the spent shells.

3. Another (perfectly reasonable, given the circumstances) method that LHO might have chosen to use is to extract them one at a time. This would be particularly indicative of someone who had had limited experience/instruction with a revolver. Remember that LHO's pistol training in the USMC was with their standard issue Colt .45 automatic pistol.

This silly idea is not reasonable ....Primarily because on on hand you want attribute to Lee Oswald experience that only an expert with a particular gun could have....  Namely the deadly accuracy that the gunman exhibited when he shot Tippit.....While on the other hand you want to suggest that Lee Oswald had "limited experience"
with a revolver.   And citing his Marine Corp training with a Colt 45 Automatic is totally irrelevant.

I used to own a S&W .38 special revolver. So I fully understand how it works. And it was not unusual for me to extract the spent shells one at a time (especially when I first started using it).

The S&W 38 special is NOT the same gun being discussed by Cunningham..... The 38 S&W revolver in question was called A Victory Model....And the chambers were bigger diameter than the .38 Special ..... This is the reason the .38 Special ammo BALLOONED  in the chamber and made the spent .38 special cartridges "Very difficult to remove"

Oh, I'm so happy that you attempted to rebut and discredit my observations.....

Yes, I have noticed that a few of you have trouble getting replies. So it probably does make you happy. The reason I typically ignore is because you don't appear to listen to reason. You make up your own story and refuse to budge from it regardless of how ridiculous it is shown to be.

Yes, those are my words ....But they could be Cunningham's because they are simply a different way of stating that the S&W revolver is NOT UNLOADED ONE SPENT SHELL AT A TIME.   IOW..I have NOT changed the meaning of Cunningham's words.   He said that the spent shells in the chambers of the cylinder of the S&W  are all ejected at the same time by operating the ejector rod... 

Cunningham demonstrated that particular method. He didn't say any of those things. That is your interpretation of his demonstration. As I said earlier, there are other methods that work just fine.


Now it is YOU who is reading something into Eisenberg's question that was never implied....  Eisenberg simply asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells....  And yes there are other ways of removing spent shells from a S&W.... but all of them are not as simple as using the shell extractor. and the other methods require tools....  Tippit's killer was not reported to have been using any tool to remove the spent shells.


I didn't claim that Cunningham said something that he didn't, you did that. What tools would be required? Two fingers always worked just fine for me.


This silly idea is not reasonable ....Primarily because on on hand you want attribute to Lee Oswald experience that only an expert with a particular gun could have....  Namely the deadly accuracy that the gunman exhibited when he shot Tippit.....While on the other hand you want to suggest that Lee Oswald had "limited experience"
with a revolver.   And citing his Marine Corp training with a Colt 45 Automatic is totally irrelevant.

Shooting the two types of handguns is similar regardless of whether it is an automatic or a revolver. And LHO was reported to be quite good at shooting a pistol by his pistol instructor in the USMC. This explains the "deadly accuracy" part. However, reloading the two different types of handguns is quite different. LHO was trained to operate the Colt .45 automatic, and I expect he would have been able to reload one of those very rapidly. But I haven't seen any evidence that LHO received any training that included reloading a revolver (he didn't even have the correct ammunition). Yes, someone who trained with a revolver would most likely use the method demonstrated by Cunningham. And repetition (in training) would enable someone to become quite proficient at it. Personally, I used to have a device that held six bullets in the same circular pattern as the revolver receiver pattern, it had a small knurled knob that twisted to release the bullets into the revolver (once they all were inserted). This allowed reloading it much faster than inserting the bullets one at a time. So, you see citing his training with a Colt .45 automatic is not irrelevant, it explains why he was accurate in shooting and perhaps not so proficient in reloading a revolver.


The S&W 38 special is NOT the same gun being discussed by Cunningham..... The 38 S&W revolver in question was called A Victory Model....And the chambers were bigger diameter than the .38 Special ..... This is the reason the .38 Special ammo BALLOONED  in the chamber and made the spent .38 special cartridges "Very difficult to remove"

Yes, I am aware of all of that. But actually the Victory model was a .38 special when manufactured. This particular gun was re-chambered by Seaport Traders, Inc to the slightly larger diameter size. Here is the mail coupon (CE 135):



 Notice the price of this gun versus the S&W 38 special that is four line items above it. LHO apparently ordered it because it had a lower price. This is consistent with the rifle, which also was priced lower than most.

[John Iacoletti]

Yeah a half dozen people were all wrong and for some reason they all wanted to send Oswald to the electric chair and kill an innocent man, geez what a shitty country you live in where you can't even trust your fellow man or neighbour. Good luck with that!

Your histrionic grandstanding is even more hilarious than Benavides' "identification".  The Dallas police deliberately manipulated witnesses with biased and unfair lineups.  Not just in this case, but in many others.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2018/06/06/a-blind-faith-in-eyewitnesses-majority-dallas-cases-overturned-by-dna-relied-heavily-on-unreliable-testimony/

[Walt Cakebread]

Good grief! Loading and unloading a Smith&Wesson .38 for Dummies-----

The revolver in the vIdeo is NOT  The old .38 caliber Victory model, that used the older and less powerful .38 cailber bullet.   The S&W revolver being discussed is the  old WW1 model.     That old S&W used a larger diameter but shorter length cartridge.   The dimensions shown in the top row are....

Projectile diameter---- .359"     Neck diameter--- .386"   Base diameter---.386"   Rim diameter---  .433"    Case length---  0.78"   Cartridge length--- 1.20"

The dimensions for the new S&W Special cartridge are .......
Projectile diameter---- .357"     Neck diameter--- .379"   Base diameter---.379"   Rim diameter---  .440"    Case length---  1.155"  Cartridge length--- 1.98"

It's obvious that the old "Victory" model would require chamber modification to allow the longer "Special" cartridge to be used in the old gun.   However the chamber bore (.388")was actually too large for the smaller diameter ( .379") Special cartridge cartridge.   This oversize chamber caused the powerful Special cartridge to balloon ( and often split) which made the removal of the spent shells difficult.   Just as Cunningham pointed out when he demonstrated the removal of the spent cartridges for the S&W Victory revolver in evidence.

So in summary....The spent shells are al removed at the same time from the S&W revolver....     But the witnesses said that Tippit's killer walked away while removing ONE- SHELL - AT - A - TIME.   And the spent shells were found widely scattered  which verifies the witnesses observations.   

The killer was NOT using a Smith & Wesson revolver.......

[John Iacoletti]

Yes, I am aware of all of that. But actually the Victory model was a .38 special when manufactured. This particular gun was re-chambered by Seaport Traders, Inc to the slightly larger diameter size. Here is the mail coupon (CE 135):

You don't know what gun killed Tippit.

But I'm curious.  What is your source for the claim that Seaport Traders did the rechambering of CE 143?

[John Mytton]

The Dallas police deliberately manipulated witnesses with biased and unfair lineups.

No, an unfair lineup is 1 man holding a rifle with a sign saying "I did it" but the Dallas line-ups were anything but.
Anyway, I know I could in no way say a man was guilty if he was not, but if you reckon that your fellow Americans were so stupid to blindly send a Man to the Electric chair because they were mindlessly manipulated then it's no wonder your country is such a mess.

JohnM

[John Iacoletti]

No, an unfair lineup is 1 man holding a rifle with a sign saying "I did it" but the Dallas line-ups were anything but.

False dilemma fallacy.  Both things are unfair lineups.

Anyway, I know I could in no way say a man was guilty if he was not,

Bully for you.  But you've shown in abundance how easily you are manipulated by police and prosecutor rhetoric.

[Tom Scully]

.....

Yes, I am aware of all of that. But actually the Victory model was a .38 special when manufactured. This particular gun was re-chambered by Seaport Traders, Inc to the slightly larger diameter size. Here is the mail coupon (CE 135):



 Notice the price of this gun versus the S&W 38 special that is four line items above it. LHO apparently ordered it because it had a lower price. This is consistent with the rifle, which also was priced lower than most.

There has been speculation those described as listening in to the Saturday night operator at the Dallas city hall assisting Oswald, triggered his shooting death ASAP, once the details of that phone surveillance and the name "John Hurt" reached those in DC in a position to understand Oswald was sending a veiled message to the PTB via the rudimentary means he was reduced to use to communicate with the outside world, given his circumstance on November 23.... IOW, he did not want anyone else to send a wink to the PTB on his behalf and he did not want to play the only card he had, the name "John Hurt" in public, under the glare of cameras and microphones of the representatives of the press he had brief access to.

If he was a patsy, it certainly could have taken him 24 to 39 hours to figure it all out and decide what he had to work with to try to give those who had set him up, second thoughts about following through with burning him.....or not?

In this particular combination of DeMohrenschildt-Oswald background details, Oswald would not be actually attempting to speak directly to John Hurt, merely to alert the right people to some knowledge he had come by, especially if he was the individual who had actually written the unusual name, "Drittal" on the Seaport Traders order form for the revolver purchase.

Coincidentally, Oswald has been linked to the names "Drittal" and John Hurt. What are the odds of that name combination
being inconsequential, random, vs what can actually be found and presented here?

https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/frank_rowlett.pdf
The Signal Intelligence Service about 1935.
Seated: Mrs. Louise Newkirk Nelson. Standing, left to right: Herrick F. Bearce; Solomon Kullback; Captain
Harold G. Miller, USA; William F. Friedman; Abraham Sinkov; Lieutenant L. T. Jones, USCG; Frank B.
Rowlett. John B. Hurt was ill when the picture was taken.

Good thing nobody reads my posts....

https://oztypewriter.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-crypto-underwood-typewriter.html

...This 1924 Underwood typewriter connection between Safford and Joerissen has lead to conspiracy theories which reach all the way to Lee Harvey Oswald and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy. I'm not going to go into that here - it's far too involved - but if anyone is interested in reading further on these theories, simply key in "safford+joerissen" in a Google search. In part, the links relate to the still unsolved shooting death of Joerissen's stepson, Chicago art dealer Paul Lamar Joachim (born Washington DC, 1912), a retired US Navy Rear Admiral, on October 22, 1962, exactly 13 months before Kennedy was killed. ...

........
...US Navy veteran, Bush, who was also a longtime acquaintance of George DeMohrenschildt, who happened to be close enough to US Navy Admiral, Chester Bruton, to bring Oswald's family to Adm. Bruton's Dallas home to use his swimming pool....

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84&relPageId=66&search=joachim_and%20june
2. HSCA Report, Volume XII, pg 62
Found in: HSCA Appendix Volumes
Joachim told the FBI that he was employed at the time in the Navy building. (209) The other occu- pants of the house were Lt. Cdr.
Navy, and Quinton Quines, who Joachim said worked at the British Em- bassy.(210) Joachim said de Mohrenschildt lived at the house during the end of May
and all of June 1942. (211) He said de Mohrenschildt never made any statements about feelings toward any country, and no statements which were pro-Nazi

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=146006&relPageId=5&search=joachim_and%20quines


Just one month after this was published, George DeM. just happened to arrive as a roomer in the DC family home inherited by
then Navy Lieut. Paul Joachim.":

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17411-discussing-the-mindset-of-conspiracy-theorists/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-220299

Guest Tom Scully  - Posted February 26, 2011 (edited)
I'm posting this here, for the first time, anywhere, as a symbolic, thumb in the eye, of those hobbled by an inability to do anything other than read and parrot official line. The "line" is officially intended to keep any of us from going to places like this, ever! :.....

....Betrayal at Pearl Harbor: how Churchill lured Roosevelt into World ...

James Rusbridger, Eric Nave - 1991 - 302 pages - Snippet view

... was that they only had two radio operators capable of receiving and transcribing kana texts from Morse code transmissions. Safford solved this by designing a typewriter which he called a special code machine.33 On 26 November 1924, he sent details to John T. Underwood of the Underwood Typewriter Company, who examined Safford's specifications with his chief designer, Charles A. Joerissen. Two weeks later, on 10 December, they offered to build Safford four such machines for $645. The makers called them the Underwood Code Machine,....

....

Is Oswald not credited with a Saturday evening attempt to place a phone call from the Dallas jail to a John Hurt? Is not
this NSA John Hurt the spouse of a musician named Anna Drittel, sometimes spelled Drittal? Has anyone ever been acquainted with a "Drittal," or seen this or a similarly spelled surname anywhere else than on this Seaport Traders order form?

Is it merely coincidence DeMohrenschildt roomed for five weeks in May-June 1942 in the Washington DC home of future Admiral
Paul Joachim, murdered in October, 1962, still unsolved murder, or that Joachim's step-father built the decoding machine permitting rapid decoding of Japanese diplomatic code in Friedman's pre-WWII NSA "shop" and that McCloy was read in, daily, to the results of the work aka "Purple" of John B. Hurt and Friedman?

Just askin'.....

https://www.nytimes.com/1966/08/09/archives/john-b-hurt-retired-aide-of-national-security-unit.html

John B. Hurt, Retired Aide Of National Security Unit

- New York Times - Aug 9, 1966

Mr. Hurt is survived by his widow, Mrs. Ana Dritell Burt, a Russian-born cellist; his mother, Mrs. Anna Hurt of Wytheville, Va.; two sisters and three ...

https://www.roanoke.com/news/wytheville-linguist-s-world-war-ii-role-is-finally-revealed/article_6ac4ca11-0160-5d94-a5f3-e1afbf7e1ecc.html
Wytheville linguist's World War II role is finally revealed
Paul Dellinger Sep 3, 2005

WYTHEVILLE -- John Hurt was pretty sure a Japanese attack was coming. But he and others at work trying to break Japanese message codes in the days before World War II did not know the target.

Hurt, who grew up in Wytheville, wrote in private recollections declassified in 1983 that they thought it would be at Manila.

Few people knew much about Hurt's wartime work that, though far from the lines of combat, was crucial to the Allied effort. Like others in his agency, Hurt suffered immense stress and even a mental breakdown from the vast amount of secret work he was processing.....

Harrod George Miller and William Friedman, circa mid 1930's