False Witness

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Steve, not trying to do anything to you or Charles other than to encourage a frank discussion from either or, even better,
from both of you. I have presented facts and I seek analysis that actually takes the facts I share, into account.

(BTW, was Kerry Thornley an intel Op? See bottom of this post.)

I readily concede Ms. Mellen, critic of Ms. Lambert's book, did no real service to this controversy, other than to divert. I hope you
will consider the facts I presented and offer a similar conclusion about Ms. Lambert's effort; that she may have also done more harm than good. Both authors, actual facts indicate, missed the forest, for the trees.

I'm coming back to support these points, but I want to get this out. Recently I posted some of this on Dr. McAdams' google news group. The only "taker" was Marsh, and he quickly withdrew. Dr. McAdams had no response, despite literally looking over my shoulder,  https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-13/ and https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-15/...
...as I uncovered the bulk of these facts and posted them in real time, hoping as always for collaboration.

Shaw hired both Baldwin and Core. (I did not watch "JFK the Movie" until 2013). Garrison hired Jesse Core as his NODA campaign comms director. Harold Weissberg developed a "man crush" on Core.

Ms. Mellen first met Jim Garrison just after the Shaw trial and was acquainted with him from then on, yet she wrote.:
However, David Baldwin, his brother, Edward, Clay Shaw, and Jim Garrison knew this. Ms. Mellen, Zachary Sklar, and Oliver Stone, did not!

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30153#relPageId=4&tab=page


From Ms. Mellen's book....
https://books.google.com/books?...







And the then 36 year old, Willard E Robertson rose from defense plant "woodworker" in 1944. to assistant to the President of that company, Jack Churchward, who dispatched Willard to NOLA, in 1948.

Tom: You are citing connections/associations - mostly of a social type, e.g., weddings - among people and then concluding solely from these connections that these same individuals conspired/worked together to do "X" or "Y".

Showing that person "A" knew person "B" does not prove that "A" and "B" got together to do "X". You just show they may have known one another.

In my view, you have presented no evidence that the Garrison investigation was a deliberate sham - done with Garrison's cooperation - designed to divert attention away from a serious followup investigation.

As to Lambert and QK/ENCHANT: I think her characterization of it and Shaw's role (if any) was fair and honest. Mellen's criticism - and she's a Garrisonite - was wrong. But in my view nearly everything Mellen says about the assassination is wrong (the Trade Mart was NOT, in my opinion, run by CIA operatives). She is right that JFK was killed in Dallas, though.

As to Lambert and her book on Garrison: She provides a great deal of documentation and sourcing for nearly all of her claims that Garrison was reckless in his investigation of Shaw. Conspiracy authors who worked with Garrison - Lifton and others - also said that they found Garrison to be reckless. I simply don't see where Lambert's work - done some 30 years later - can be some sort of deliberate effort directed by others to impeach Garrison's investigation. Why now? For what purpose?

[Tom Scully]

Tom: You are citing connections/associations - mostly of a social type, e.g., weddings - among people and then concluding solely from these connections that these same individuals conspired/worked together to do "X" or "Y".

Showing that person "A" knew person "B" does not prove that "A" and "B" got together to do "X". You just show they may have known one another.

In my view, you have presented no evidence that the Garrison investigation was a deliberate sham - done with Garrison's cooperation - designed to divert attention away from a serious followup investigation.

As to Lambert and QK/ENCHANT: I think her characterization of it and Shaw's role (if any) was fair and honest. Mellen's criticism - and she's a Garrisonite - was wrong. But in my view nearly everything Mellen says about the assassination is wrong (the Trade Mart was NOT, in my opinion, run by CIA operatives). She is right that JFK was killed in Dallas, though.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4471-rex/
Tom Purvis - Posted 20 July, 2005
.....Maids....
....Of course, other Queens of COMUS include the daughter of General Robert E. Lee as well as the daughter of Jefferson Davis

Post #5:
Robert Howard: Would you care to elaborate?

Tom Purvis: Only the daughters of the uppermost "Southern Elite" secured such positions.

Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!

The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News | The Harvard Crimson

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
Feb 6, 1974 - The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. Politics. By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ... Garrison became the district attorney in New Orleans in 1962, .

If you were to ask yourself, what has Scully presented and ACTUALLY CLAIMED that is impeachable? If you can answer that question and stop failing to weigh and then take into account what I have presented in this thread, (your responses indicate to me you have not; in fact you seem to cling to conclusions I believe I have impeached. Case in point is non-disclosure of exactly the same things by Shaw, Garrison, and by Nicholas B Lemann) your replies will strike me as much less "canned".

Perry Russo was ably represented in that his counsel must have demanded/conducted discovery, per Civil Procedure, considering that Russo was obviously deposed. Read the decision by Fed. Judge Charles Schwartz in Russo v. Conde Nast, and then weigh this.;

I made  smalll typo, I meant it to read, Liz Ziegler Garrison.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/transaction-man-nicholas-lemann.html
Sept., 10, 2019


https://www.leagle.com/decision/19921409806fsupp60311312
.....
....When Russo was questioned in deposition as to whether he had any reason to believe that Lemann or any one at GQ harbored any animosity toward him, he essentially admitted that he had no reason to believe that either were out to hurt him, to wit:

Q. Do you have any reason to believe that Mr. Lemann has any animosity toward you or bad feelings toward you other than the fact, the mere fact of publication of the article?
A. As a personal thing, no, but I've always felt that those that were — that would purport to write stories of Garrison's case were after Garrison. And to be after Garrison meant to attack whatever Garrison based his case upon. And one of the witnesses in that case is myself — in that case was myself. And so to dismiss me as a grifter, he had no personal thing against me but he does intend to destroy Garrison's image or the legacy of Garrison. And so the best way would be to destroy me in the process.
Q. Well, do you have any facts upon which you base you suggestion that Mr. Lemann was out to destroy Garrison's image other than this article?
A. No.
Q. And how about G.Q. Magazine? Do you know or have you ever had any dealings with anybody connected with G.Q. Magazine or the people that publish G.Q. Magazine that would lead you to believe that they had anything in for you or that they had any reason to try to hurt you?
A. No.8.....

Steve, if after reading the rather brief Russo court decision material to my argument I linked to and excerpted of and still believe Russo would not have answered differently if "journalist" Nicholas Lemann had disclosed his conflict of interests at some point (at any point) before Russo was deposed, I anticipate we have nothing more to attempt agreement about. Consider, too if Lemann, with no post graduate degree and this ongoing disclosure "lapse", was a choice as Dean of CGSJ that is actually fair to those Columbia grad school students or to ethical journalism in the US, generally?

Addressing your reiterated point, I strive to take a reasonable approach. It seems fair to share with you that I counted 348 other students in that Princeton U. sophomore class aside from members Churchward and Dulles, BUT:

there must be some reasonable explanation for how New Hampshire born, New Haven, CT resident Willard E Robertson went from former men's attire salesclerk, to sandwich shop mgr, to small tavern mgr., to Jack Churchward's "woodworker" at age 36, in 1944, to multi-millionaire of 1961, in the 17 years between woodworker and foreign automobile S.E. US import/magnate, and kingmaker of Louisiana political contenders, including Mayor Schiro, Gov. McKeithen, NODA Garrison...



We are considering a New England guy with a wife, two kids, and an undercapitalized economic venture supporting his arrival in NOLA in 1948. Jack Churchward filed for bankruptcy later that same year and SteelCraft boats of the S.E. piloted by Willard Robertson never took off.

How does a middleaged man of limited means and resume, set back by very recent divorce involving children come to learn enough about Louisiana politics to both be quite effective at the same time he is also suddenly building a business empire, with no visible ties to the financing required... getting the financing, local political savvy, and the local connections and management organization to do, in 8 short years, by 1961, the factual details represent Willard Robertson as having done?

IOW, Robertson's gargantuan reversals, on all fronts, even as literally a stranger in a strange land, are less reasonable than my introduction of two of 350 Princeton sophomores, "into the mix"!

Willard....Willard, who?

All of the other Volkswagen regional distributors were, to say the least, a cut above Robertson, both in wealth and in imported automobile marketing and servicing.
Charles Urschel, Jr. was step-brother of Tom and Earl F Slick. Willard E Robertson, Jr. was the employee of failing Steelcraft Boats of West Haven, CT in 1952. He is buried in New Hampshire.

Getting the Bugs Out: The Rise, Fall, and Comeback of Volkswagen in ...

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0471263044
David Kiley - 2002 - ‎Business & Economics
... Luther Johnson (brothers) in Oakland, California; William Boeing, Jr. (aircraft ... and Indiana; Charles Urschel, Jr., in San Antonio, Texas; Willard Robertson in ... the Delta states and Tennessee; and Jack Pry in Washington, D.C.13 Van de ...

However, Robertson seperated and divorced from wife Sally and later court proceedings indicate also, from their two children, as well. Robertson and his office secretary at Steelcraft S.E., 17 years his junior, married in 1953. In 1959, Marie Gossom Robertson's death resulted in an auto accident riding in a vehicle driven by Willard Robertson.



This is a deliberative, thoughtful, methodical inquiry I stumbled into by accident in late fall, 2015. As long as it continues to bear fruit, why would I stop?

His daughter's death in a car driven by Robertson had no averse effect on the growing business ties with Gossom and his
two sons. Ernest Gossom had been manager of the NOLA CC since the early 1920s. Burke's golf tournament participation can be documented to 1925 and Burke's obit, as well as Lloyd Ray's include that club membership. Burke's daughter's findagrave entry documents her selection as Comus's queen in the 1950 carnival. Comus remains anonymous.


The 1949 host of Burke's daughters buffet, batchelor Spencer, was Burke's best man in 1927. Spencer and Burke demonstrate lasting friendship, and Spencer's Hill School (Pottstown, PA) classmate and Princeton roommate was, by 1954, Allen Dulles's Science Officer.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100520469/constance-ivy-fedoroff
Constance Ivy Burke Fedoroff
...Daughter of Mrs. William P. Burke

Queen MKC 1950.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistick_Krewe_of_Comus
The Mistick Krewe of Comus, founded in 1856, is a New Orleans, Louisiana Carnival krewe. It is the oldest continuous organization of New Orleans Mardi Gras festivities.
.....
Carnival secrecy and exclusivity
Comus has jealously guarded the identities of its membership and the privacy of its activities (other than its parade), perhaps even more than the other Carnival organizations subscribing to the traditional code of secrecy.

[Mark A. Oblazney]

Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!

If you were to ask yourself, what has Scully presented and ACTUALLY CLAIMED that is impeachable? If you can answer that question and stop failing to weigh and then take into account what I have presented in this thread, (your responses indicate to me you have not; in fact you seem to cling to conclusions I believe I have impeached. Case in point is non-disclosure of exactly the same things by Shaw, Garrison, and by Nicholas B Lemann) your replies will strike me as much less "canned".

Perry Russo was ably represented in that his counsel must have demanded/conducted discovery, per Civil Procedure, considering that Russo was obviously deposed. Read the decision by Fed. Judge Charles Schwartz in Russo v. Conde Nast, and then weigh this.;

I made  smalll typo, I meant it to read, Liz Ziegler Garrison.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/transaction-man-nicholas-lemann.html
Sept., 10, 2019


https://www.leagle.com/decision/19921409806fsupp60311312
.....
....When Russo was questioned in deposition as to whether he had any reason to believe that Lemann or any one at GQ harbored any animosity toward him, he essentially admitted that he had no reason to believe that either were out to hurt him, to wit:

Steve, if after reading the rather brief Russo court decision material to my argument I linked to and excerpted of and still believe Russo would not have answered differently if "journalist" Nicholas Lemann had disclosed his conflict of interests at some point (at any point) before Russo was deposed, I anticipate we have nothing more to attempt agreement about. Consider, too if Lemann, with no post graduate degree and this ongoing disclosure "lapse", was a choice as Dean of CGSJ that is actually fair to those Columbia grad school students or to ethical journalism in the US, generally?

Addressing your reiterated point, I strive to take a reasonable approach. It seems fair to share with you that I counted 348 other students in that Princeton U. sophomore class aside from members Churchward and Dulles, BUT:

there must be some reasonable explanation for how New Hampshire born, New Haven, CT resident Willard E Robertson went from former men's attire salesclerk, to sandwich shop mgr, to small tavern mgr., to Jack Churchward's "woodworker" at age 36, in 1944, to multi-millionaire of 1961, in the 17 years between woodworker and foreign automobile S.E. US import/magnate, and kingmaker of Louisiana political contenders, including Mayor Schiro, Gov. McKeithen, NODA Garrison...



We are considering a New England guy with a wife, two kids, and an undercapitalized economic venture supporting his arrival in NOLA in 1948. Jack Churchward filed for bankruptcy later that same year and SteelCraft boats of the S.E. piloted by Willard Robertson never took off.

How does a middleaged man of limited means and resume, set back by very recent divorce involving children come to learn enough about Louisiana politics to both be quite effective at the same time he is also suddenly building a business empire, with no visible ties to the financing required... getting the financing, local political savvy, and the local connections and management organization to do, in 8 short years, by 1961, the factual details represent Willard Robertson as having done?

IOW, Robertson's gargantuan reversals, on all fronts, even as literally a stranger in a strange land, are less reasonable than my introduction of two of 350 Princeton sophomores, "into the mix"!

Willard....Willard, who?

However, Robertson seperated and divorced from wife Sally and later court proceedings indicate also, from their two children, as well. Robertson and his office secretary at Steelcraft S.E., 17 years his junior, married in 1953. In 1959, Marie Gossom Robertson's death resulted in an auto accident riding in a vehicle driven by Willard Robertson.



This is a deliberative, thoughtful, methodical inquiry I stumbled into by accident in late fall, 2015. As long as it continues to bear fruit, why would I stop?

His daughter's death in a car driven by Robertson had no averse effect on the growing business ties with Gossom and his
two sons. Ernest Gossom had been manager of the NOLA CC since the early 1920s. Burke's golf tournament participation can be documented to 1925 and Burke's obit, as well as Lloyd Ray's include that club membership. Burke's daughter's findagrave entry documents her selection as Comus's queen in the 1950 carnival. Comus remains anonymous.


The 1949 host of Burke's daughters buffet, batchelor Spencer, was Burke's best man in 1927. Spencer and Burke demonstrate lasting friendship, and Spencer's Hill School (Pottstown, PA) classmate and Princeton roommate was, by 1954, Allen Dulles's Science Officer.

"Club membership", indeed, Tom.  Thanks for all your digging.  You've been at this a while. As Einstein said, "Everything in the universe is subject to change.  And everything is on schediule".

[Tom Scully]

"Club membership", indeed, Tom.  Thanks for all your digging.  You've been at this a while. As Einstein said, "Everything in the universe is subject to change.  And everything is on schediule".

Thank you, Mark. BTW aren't you being, "rather hard on the beaver" (aka "bertie" D.?) Ghost town here, owing possibly to the
irresistible "draw" of "Wipe that Rifle" and of course, TSBD threshhold "doings"...six years on, with no resolution and obviously no resolution even possicble?

In the, GEE, "this smells like horse poop," category.... Lloyd Ray convinces visiting CIA  Asst. Counsel that the "fifedom" of
Garrison Investigation Robertson/Gossom financiers is a more secure location to discuss classified matters than in the NOLA CIA DCO! I have a bridge to sell you if your rigidity of belief is not at least slightly thawed in reaction to presentation of facts.:
1965 Announcement:




Assistant General Counsel, John K Greaney memo, May 13, 1967:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=101367&relPageId=3


FYI, I am awaiting Dr. John M.'s approval of this post to his google news group, earlier this A.M.:

(Steve, if you prefer, I will promptly remove this quote of your comment in our parallel discussion.)

Steve M. Galbraith - Posted October 6, 2019 @ alt.assassination.jfk

> How is Lemann's critical work about Garrison some 30 years *after* the
> investigation evidence of some collaboration *with* Garrison?
>
> Your claim is, I believe, that Garrison's investigation was a sham
> conducted - with Garrison's cooperation - to divert attention away from a
> real subsequent investigation to the WC. So Garrison was "hand waving"
> people to look at his little game and not to look at what really happened.
>
> So again what does Lemann have to do with this? How does what he wrote
> after Garrison's investigation - which he called a farce - help Garrison
> divert attention?
>
> If the Garrison/Shaw investigation was a diversion, isn't Lemann exposing
> it as a fraud undermining the diversion and not helping it?
>
> I can't see how you go from ushers and best men to woodworkers to cousins
> of inlaws to this plot that Garrison went along with to conduct a farce to
> help the real killers of JFK escape.

My reply to Steve, earlier today.:

Steve, I lost my enthusiasm for debating my research results with you because you continue to ridicule the very means I employ to produce these research details... primarily details wedding and funeral announcements that provide material leads, and your transforming what I shared with you more than once, into what you described dismissively as "thirty years later". The fact I shared with you was that Nicholas Lemann began his Garrison bashing, which is just as likely a disinfo OP component, as soon after the Shaw trial as Lemann was able to project from a considerable pulpit, nearly 28 years earlier than you emphasized, and actually, just five years after the Shaw trial verdict.:

The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News | The Harvard Crimson
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
Feb 6, 1974 - By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974 ... to put together this mythical coalition, but Jim Garrison, the six-and-a-half foot tall New Orleans district ...

AND:

20 Years After Dallas - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1983/11/20/20-years-after-dallas/3f048775-d891-4097-b32d-c5bac324e98f/
By Nicholas Lemann; Nicholas Lemann is a national correspondent of The Atlantic and. author of "Out of the Forties." November 20, 1983 .... Jim Garrison, announced that he was investigating the question of who really had murdered
Kennedy ...

And, in Russo v. Conde Nast, Lemann deprived Perry Russo of candid discovery, i.e., that he was not simply a journalist, NOLA native who believed Garrison was an embarrassment to Lemann's city. In 1967, Garrison accused Lemann's uncle
of distributing CIA funds to pay lawyers shielding subject's of Garrison's investigatory interest, or that his father's and his uncle's step-sister was married to godfather/first cousin, David Baldwin, of Garrison's wife and that Baldwin was fired covert CIA hired by Shaw as trademart PR flack.

ONE MORE TIME: It defies credulity that Lemann was writing about Garrison for 28 years (correction, 17 years) by the time of Russo v. Conde Nast, had worked at Washington Monthly with Tom Bethell in 1976, served two terms as dean of a prestigious graduate school of journalism despite having no graduate level degree, himself, yet was not witting of his own family connections I described a few sentences above this sentence. As I have said before, Garrison and his wife's Baldwin/Lemann family relations could have resolved their differences after diiner at a family holiday table, IF THE GARRISON INVESTIGATION AND SHAW PROSECUTION WAS REALLY AS PRESENTED. NOLA CIA DCO officers were not actually in the dark, as CIA docs, famously the Rocca meeting. Ray, Leake, and Cecil Shilstone had common member in all of their wedding parties, William P Hagerty, (Lloyd Ray reported his link to Shilstone, (see doc image below this quote box...) but no record of Leake disclosure) and Dorothy Brandao had been married to United Fruit brother, John Miceli, of Garrison mentor, Deutsch's United Fruit co-counsel. Augusto Miceli =inside counsel, Deutsch =outside counsel. Brandao's 1939 wedding announcement image link.:
 

....And mob ties related to the Miceli siblings.:
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-week-21-5/#comment-875347

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=66155&relPageId=2


www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=12700&relPageId=2


June 3, 1976 :
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16299&search=garrison_and+walton#relPageId=2

[Colin Crow]

[Thomas Graves]

Funny, I thought he said, "You're the cop. You figure it out."

Or was that in the hallway?

LOL

-- MWT 

[Colin Crow]

Funny, I thought he said, "You're the cop. You figure it out."

Or was that in the hallway?

LOL

-- MWT 

Linked to Case Closed.....so I cant verify the authenticity.

The police ran him into an elevator and took him to a third-floor office. He was put into a small interrogation room, with several men standing guard, as they waited for the chief of homicide, Captain Will Fritz. Suddenly, another homicide detective, Gus Rose, entered the room. He had the suspect’s billfold in his hand, and he pushed two plastic cards forward. “One says Lee Harvey Oswald and one says Alek Hidell. Which one are you?”

A smirk again crossed his face. “You figure it out,” he said.