A Better Sequence (TM DVP)

[John Iacoletti]

Pure BS from a guy who thinks his speculative nonsense is evidence.

[Thomas Graves]

Pure BS from a guy who thinks his speculative nonsense is evidence.

John,

I found the photo of the five male models wearing Bermuda shorts that you posted on a thread about the identity of the three skirt and or dresses-under-raincoats-wearing people on the Pergola Patio in Towner, but I can't find the one you posted showing a guy wearing Bermuda shorts in the snow.

Have you deleted it?

I wouldn't be surprised if you have.

--  MWT   

[John Iacoletti]

You really should see somebody about your obsession with men’s shorts.

[Colin Crow]

Givens appears to distinguish between his "coat" and his "jacket" in his responses.  For example, he indicates that he left a "raincoat" in the domino room that morning.  In fact, Belin uses the term "jacket" in that question but Givens responds with "raincoat".  And he retrieves his "coat" when he leaves for the day.  In response to questions about his trip to the 6th floor, however, he consistently references his "jacket."  Maybe that is the distinction.  He wore a raincoat to work that morning but also kept a jacket at work. I don't see that distinction as undermining his testimony.  And then there is this characterization that brings to mind the many witnesses that described Oswald as wearing a jacket after the assassination when he appears to have had on a long sleeve shirt:


Mr. BELIN. When you got off the elevator, as you were coming back up to get your shirt, did you have any occasion as you were walking out of the elevator to look to see if there was anyone else on the floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I wasn't thinking of that. I just happened to glance around as I was on my way back.

Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning.

I can see where you are coming from Richard. Certainly worth a considered response. Belin specifically mentioned “jacket”, as he was obviously aware of the significance that this will play later when Givens claimed collecting his jacket because his cigarettes were in the pocket. It seems the normal practice was to leave jackets, coats and hats in the domino room. Givens replied with raincoat. He did not say “I wore a jacket and coat”….simply raincoat. Belin asked if he hung his “coat” in the domino room and Givens simply confirms. As the jacket was central to the argument one would think that Belin should have clarified and then moved on.

[Colin Crow]

Of course we need to correct Vince. His statement that Brennan saw 3 men on the fifth floor is incorrect. Brennan only saw two, likely because we know Williams did not arrive to join the others until just shortly before the shots.

I would also point out that the idea that Williams had agreed with anyone to view the motorcade from the 6th floor that morning is an uncorroborated claim by Williams. Neither Lovelady or Arce were asked to confirm an any statement or testimony.

From "You are the Jury" by David Belin......

"Mr. Belin. I believe that you testified that you thought you recognized two of the people that you saw looking out of the fifth floor of the School Book Depository Building ... outside of the building sometime after the assassination, is that correct?
The two people that you saw, are they any of these three people here?
Mr. Brennan. Yes. I believe it is the one on the end and this one here, I am not sure.
The employee that Brennan immediately identified was Harold Norman. But he seemed to hesitate about the other, although he said that he thought
that it was James Jarman Jr. I deliberately tried to trip up Brennan:
Mr. Belin. Could it have been neither one of these persons that you saw?
Mr. Brennan. I think it was one of them. I think it was this boy on the end.
Mr. Belin. You thought it was Mr. Norman. And what about Mr. Jarman?
Mr. Brennan. I believe it was him too. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Ball. I don't know.
And at that time, neither Joe Ball nor I did know whether Brennan was right or wrong. The answer depended on the testimony of Harold Norman and James Jarman Jr."

I somehow doubt the truthfulness of Belin's last statement. Ball and Belin visited Dallas immediately before these testimonies. They spent considerable time with Williams, Norman and Jarman in reconstructing their movements in the TSBD.

[Colin Crow]

Please note that I have updated the original post with a sequence that I believe is supported by analysis of the accumulated evidence. Happy to have serious debate and modify where appropriate.

[Jerry Freeman]

  He wore a raincoat to work that morning but also kept a jacket at work. I don't see that distinction as undermining his testimony.   

Of course you wouldn't. But the phrase 'I also kept a jacket at work' was never used.