A Better Sequence (TM DVP)

[Colin Crow]

This original post has been updated with some significant events that I have placed in the best chronological order I can determine for now. Some events can be added/modified and sequence changed as knowledge increases.

At about 11.45 - 11.50am Shelley observes Oswald on the first floor.
The Elevator Race - the descending occupants observe Oswald on the 5th filling orders and calling out for an elevator .
Cigarette Trip - Givens claim of returning to the 6th floor and observing Oswald. I do not believe this occurred.
About noon - Piper talks to Oswald on the first floor
Williams arrives on the 6th Floor
Givens saw Oswald reading a paper in the domino room about 20 minutes after the elevator race - 11/23 report
12:15 p.m. Rowland sights a gunman in SW window of 6th floor - also African-American man in SE window.
12.22pm Jarman and Norman head to the 5th floor as motorcade arrived at Main.
12.23pm Ambulance arrives for Belknap
Brennan takes position
12.25pm Ambulance enroute to Parkland
Jarman and Norman arrive on 5th floor
Brennan sees man in 6th floor window who leaves position
Brennan notices two African-American men on 5th floor
Williams arrives on the 5th Floor
Fisher and Edwards see man in 6th floor window
Brennan sees Caucasian man in 6th floor window firing rifle
Ewins sees man with "rifle"

In the domino room alibi https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2187.0.html thread certain events that occurred in the half hour before the shots were considered. The balance of the evidence considered clearly showed that Rowland's sighting of a man with a rifle on the 6th floor occurred before the arrival of Jarman and Norman arrived on the 5th floor.

Another event that was used by the WR to place Oswald in the area of the SE corner the 6th floor after the elevator race was the testimony of Charles Givens. Many critics have claimed his revelation was a concoction. I offer the following in support of that notion and propose his "event" be removed entirely from the series of events sequence.

Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hang up your coat in that room (the domino room), too?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Next?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.

Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you heard them?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, we broke and ran down that way, and by the time we got to the corner down there of Houston and Elm, everybody was running, going toward the underpass over there by the railroad tracks. And we asked--I asked someone some white fellow there, 'What happened ?" And he said, "Somebody shot the President." Like that. So I stood there for a while, and I went over to try to get to the building after they found out the shots came from there, and when I went over to try to get back in the officer at the door wouldn't let me in.
Mr. BELIN. Did you tell him you worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; but he still wouldn't let me in. He told me he wouldn't let no one in.
Mr. BELIN. This was the front of Elm Street?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes. So I goes back over to the parking lot and I wait until I seen Junior.
Mr. BELIN. Is that Jarman?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes. They were on their way home, and they told me that they let them all go home for the evening, and I said, "I'd better go back and get my hat and coat."

When interviewed by the FBI on the 23rd here is what appears in their report.

[John Iacoletti]

[Colin Crow]

His earliest recollection contains the following.

Oswald on the 5th floor by the elevator, filling orders, at the time of the elevator race.

Oswald calls for the elevator when they pass.

This event is corroborated by the others.

Givens also recalled Oswald reading a newspaper in the lunchroom about 20 minutes after. This would put Oswald on the first floor some time after noon. Possibly after the brief conversation with Piper.

[John Iacoletti]

There was no mention of the cigarette story in Givens’ affidavit or in subsequent interviews by the Secret Service and the FBI. The first appearance of the story was in April 1964, after the report that he would change his story for money.

[Colin Crow]

There was no mention of the cigarette story in Givens’ affidavit or in subsequent interviews by the Secret Service and the FBI. The first appearance of the story was in April 1964, after the report that he would change his story for money.

I believe the Givens' "change" is related to the Thayer Waldo story that arose from the Howard brothers. It appears to be an evolution of a story originally "designed" to have a witness observing the assassin firing from the SN and fleeing. Of course Givens could not fulfil that. He became the next best thing.....Oswald near the SN "after the elevator race".

[Colin Crow]

As with the domino room alibi thread will we not get any LN members to support Givens' cigarette trip? Of course we all know now that Williams was on the 6th floor the same time as the man with the rifle don’t we?

[Walt Cakebread]

As with the domino room alibi thread will we not get any LN members to support Givens' cigarette trip? Of course we all know now that Williams was on the 6th floor the same time as the man with the rifle don’t we?

we all know now that Williams was on the 6th floor the same time as the man with the rifle don’t we?

Yes, The reports of the witnesses say that they saw a man in light colored clothing with a rifle, on the sixth floor sometime between 12:15 and 12:30.

Unless Williams was asleep....It's hard to believe that he didn't see the man.