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Author Topic: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown and chicken bones!  (Read 186729 times)

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #224 on: September 05, 2019, 05:17:15 AM »
David you might like to update your 914 entry for accuracy......

"I doubt there was ever any chicken bones right AT or IN the Sniper's Nest. Or on the SN boxes. The chicken bones and lunch sack and Dr. Pepper bottle were further WEST, where Bonnie Ray Williams said he ate lunch.

I think Luke Mooney was incorrect about the precise location where the bones were found."

You need to include the numerous officers I have quoted on more than one occasion. Mooney was not the only one to make the claim as your entry implies.

OK. I took your suggestion and updated that webpage. (Thanks.)

Here's an excerpt from that page (from either 2015 or 2016)....

COLIN CROW SAID:

Either he [Bonnie Ray Williams] lied,

Or

The assassin had a chicken lunch too that he didn't finish.....that disappeared entirely under the noses of numerous police officers (maybe they were hungry),

Or

The assassin grabbed BRW's lunch after he left......then someone moved it back to the two wheeler,

Or

Feel free to [provide] another possibility, David.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I don't think anyone lied. Some people were simply mistaken. Like Edwards and Fischer when they said FIFTH floor in their affidavits when they really meant SIXTH floor.

But the theory I'm hearing in this discussion means you guys need to have Bonnie Ray Williams [BRW] lying his head off, plus various police officers lying, and the Warren Commission too. It's just plain silly (not to mention totally unnecessary on ANYONE'S behalf)....and surely you know it's silly. But you insist on making mountains out of nothingness anyway. It's in a CTer's blood. You can't help it, I guess.

You guys seem to think the ONLY place where BRW could have possibly leaned back on some boxes on the entire sixth floor was INSIDE the Sniper's Nest itself----even though Williams is clear he was NOT that far EAST on the building's sixth floor when he ate his lunch. But you'll ignore the person who is obviously the best witness to say where he ate lunch----Bonnie Ray himself.

Plus, what makes you think Williams couldn't have MOVED the two-wheeler truck just a little bit (one way or the other)? It was a MOVABLE object, you know. Just as a piece of chicken is MOVABLE.

And a piece of chicken that inexplicably goes from one part of the sixth floor to another (and I cannot explain it; I have no idea why there is the conflicting testimony regarding the chicken bones) is not going to suddenly ERASE the physical evidence of Oswald's guilt. Nor will that piece of chicken (or its bones) erase the known incriminating ACTIONS of one Lee Harvey Oswald on 11/22/63.

Oswald's guilt in both the Kennedy and Tippit murders is rock-solid and will survive the avalanche of speculative nonsense coming from conspiracy theorists about chicken bones and the unsupportable allegations about Bonnie Ray Williams being a liar, etc.

Nobody in this discussion has done anything that diminishes Lee Oswald's guilty status----even if the chicken bones WERE moved around on the sixth floor by somebody (anybody!) on November 22nd.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 05:23:40 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #225 on: September 05, 2019, 05:44:53 AM »
OK. I took your suggestion and updated that webpage. (Thanks.)

Here's an excerpt from that page (from either 2015 or 2016)....

COLIN CROW SAID:

Either he [Bonnie Ray Williams] lied,

Or

The assassin had a chicken lunch too that he didn't finish.....that disappeared entirely under the noses of numerous police officers (maybe they were hungry),

Or

The assassin grabbed BRW's lunch after he left......then someone moved it back to the two wheeler,

Or

Feel free to [provide] another possibility, David.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I don't think anyone lied. Some people were simply mistaken. Like Edwards and Fischer when they said FIFTH floor in their affidavits when they really meant SIXTH floor.

But the theory I'm hearing in this discussion means you guys need to have Bonnie Ray Williams [BRW] lying his head off, plus various police officers lying, and the Warren Commission too. It's just plain silly (not to mention totally unnecessary on ANYONE'S behalf)....and surely you know it's silly. But you insist on making mountains out of nothingness anyway. It's in a CTer's blood. You can't help it, I guess.

You guys seem to think the ONLY place where BRW could have possibly leaned back on some boxes on the entire sixth floor was INSIDE the Sniper's Nest itself----even though Williams is clear he was NOT that far EAST on the building's sixth floor when he ate his lunch. But you'll ignore the person who is obviously the best witness to say where he ate lunch----Bonnie Ray himself.

Plus, what makes you think Williams couldn't have MOVED the two-wheeler truck just a little bit (one way or the other)? It was a MOVABLE object, you know. Just as a piece of chicken is MOVABLE.

And a piece of chicken that inexplicably goes from one part of the sixth floor to another (and I cannot explain it; I have no idea why there is the conflicting testimony regarding the chicken bones) is not going to suddenly ERASE the physical evidence of Oswald's guilt. Nor will that piece of chicken (or its bones) erase the known incriminating ACTIONS of one Lee Harvey Oswald on 11/22/63.

Oswald's guilt in both the Kennedy and Tippit murders is rock-solid and will survive the avalanche of speculative nonsense coming from conspiracy theorists about chicken bones and the unsupportable allegations about Bonnie Ray Williams being a liar, etc.

Nobody in this discussion has done anything that diminishes Lee Oswald's guilty status----even if the chicken bones WERE moved around on the sixth floor by somebody (anybody!) on November 22nd.

Take a breath David.......

Did I say that any of those officers lied? Of course they didn't. They faithfully reported what they saw. You are aware that the reports for a day or more talked of the assassin lying in wait eating the chicken lunch. Those officers initially saw it in the SN. In their oral histories etc taken many years later many still believed the chicken lunch was Oswald's.

Of course the lunch was moved, at least once, from the position Mooney (and the others) initially reported prior to the arrival of Fritz. I assumed you know who the likely suspect was. If I was wrong here is the clue once more.

Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect. I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see over there?
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment, there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.
 
At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab.



In "No More Silence" by Larry Sneed reporter Jim Ewell related the following account of events and likely provides the missing piece of the puzzle.
 
"Meanwhile Jerry Hill worked his way up to the sixth floor, leaned out an open window, and he had what was thought to be Oswald’s little fried chicken lunch. It was in a little pop box. Jerry was holding that box and holding up one of the chicken bones exclaiming to everybody that listened to him down on the street that the fried chicken was what he had been eating. About that time there was a commotion around one of the squad cars, and we could hear a radio saying that an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff." 

There you go. Gerry Hill only moved one window across as evidenced by the picture above. He likely dropped the chicken and bag down before leaving and encountering Fritz. This would now be a group of boxes westward of their original position. To an area guarded by Johnson upon his arrival as evidence by his testimony. At some point after that someone (likely Johnson) put the chicken piece in the bag and set it down near the two wheeler. The consolidated evidence is overwhelming that the original position of the lunch was in the SN area. It was moved, likely on two occasions and the last put the chicken piece inside.

That's my take on all the information I have been able to absorb. Does any of this seem outrageous to you. No officers need to lie, (well little ones about moving stuff a bit but it was chaos up there), and no one was incriminating Oswald.

We can deal with Williams next.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 06:03:05 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #226 on: September 05, 2019, 06:31:06 AM »
Based on the shadow being cast on the bricks, it looks to me like Gerald Hill is holding his own HAT in his right hand in this photo, not a "chicken box" (or bag)....




Bigger view:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JlXuHKhl9S4/TZPZmjH3RkI/AAAAAAAATso/wjE0gVlyLIc/s3000-h/Gerald%2BHill%2BLeaning%2BOut%2BTSBD%2BWindow.jpg
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 06:42:51 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #227 on: September 05, 2019, 06:47:05 AM »
Based on the shadow being cast on the bricks, it looks to me like Gerald Hill is holding his own HAT in his right hand in this photo, not a "chicken box" (or bag)....




Bigger view:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JlXuHKhl9S4/TZPZmjH3RkI/AAAAAAAATso/wjE0gVlyLIc/s3000-h/Gerald%2BHill%2BLeaning%2BOut%2BTSBD%2BWindow.jpg

So....I never said the photo showed the chicken. Merely that it showed the window he leaned out of. It confirms he was just one window away. It is Jim Ewell who made the claim that at some stage he held the lunch. The photo supports his claim (to an extent). Or another mistake? Perhaps he picked it up after the photo or had set it down just before. I take it you have nothing about the officers who all claimed it was in the SN before the arrival of Fritz.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 06:49:09 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #228 on: September 05, 2019, 06:53:31 AM »
BTW/FYI....

Here's a different photo showing Gerry Hill leaning out the window, and this picture verifies that it is definitely Hill's hat that he is holding....

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184839/m1/1/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 07:03:21 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #229 on: September 05, 2019, 06:57:25 AM »
I take it you have nothing about the officers who all claimed it was in the SN before the arrival of Fritz.

Only the things I said previously in 2015....

"And a piece of chicken that inexplicably goes from one part of the sixth floor to another (and I cannot explain it;
I have no idea why there is the conflicting testimony regarding the chicken bones) is not going to suddenly ERASE the physical evidence of Oswald's guilt. .... Nobody in this discussion has done anything that diminishes Lee Oswald's guilty status----even if the chicken bones WERE moved around on the sixth floor by somebody (anybody!) on November 22nd."
-- DVP; Circa 2015—2016

« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 07:02:39 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown!
« Reply #230 on: September 05, 2019, 07:08:36 AM »
From Vince Bugliosi's book (re: the chicken bones)....

---quote on---

"During a search of the sixth floor after the assassination, a detective for the Crime Scene Search Section of the Dallas Police Department found a lunch bag with chicken bones, a piece of waxed paper, and a little piece of Fritos in it in front of the “third” double-window over from the southeasternmost window on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building. He also found a Dr. Pepper bottle nearby. (7 H 146, WCT Robert Lee Studebaker; CD 1245, p.84, FBI interview of Robert Studebaker on May 29, 1964)

Since Bonnie Williams had chicken, Fritos, and a Dr. Pepper for lunch at that exact place, that should have been the end of it. Lieutenant J. C. Day dusted the Dr. Pepper bottle for fingerprints, and no prints of Oswald’s were found. When Day later found out the food and drink had belonged to Williams, he decided the lunch bag and Dr. Pepper bottle had no value to the case and threw the sack and bottle away. (CD 1245, p.83)

Not so fast, said conspiracy theorist Sylvia Meagher, who said that since Day “saw no need to check the empty bottle for fingerprints other than Oswald’s, we will never know if fingerprints were on the bottle, or whose they were.” And even though Studebaker, whose job it was to search the sixth floor, saw the food and drink next to the third double-window over, and several other witnesses said they saw them in the same place (e.g., 6 H 330–331, WCT William H. Shelley), and Williams himself said that’s where he ate his lunch, Meagher proceeded to cite other witnesses who said they saw food elsewhere, for example, Luke Mooney (3 H 288–289), who said he saw a piece of chicken on top of the boxes surrounding the sniper’s nest. (Meagher, Accessories after the Fact, pp.39–41)

Other than her and her colleagues’ insatiable passion for pointing out normal (not to them) inconsistencies in the recollections of witnesses, nowhere does Meagher tell her readers what the relevance of these inconsistencies was. Was it her point that Williams was lying, that the chicken eater was the assassin in the sniper’s nest (who wasn’t, Meagher would assure us, Oswald), or Williams was not lying, but the assassin in the sniper’s nest was also eating chicken while he waited to kill the president?

I wish the theorists would tell us the relevance of the many inconsistencies they cite in the Kennedy case instead of feeling that the inconsistencies are an end in themselves and nothing else has to be shown or argued."
-- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 23 of Endnotes in "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)


---------------- BONUS! ----------------

« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:10:27 AM by David Von Pein »