The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown and chicken bones!

[John Iacoletti]

I didn’t buy his book. When I saw the superficial treatment of the evidence available (like the dismissal of Mooney in the quote) I figured I didn’t miss much. Maybe he or his ghostwriters hadn’t bothered to analyse all the available information about the chicken lunch by 2007.

Bugliosi is just Posner with a whole lot of repetition, lawyer rhetoric, and appeals to ridicule heaped on top of it.  Bugliosi was in desperate need of an editor.

[John Iacoletti]

Nor would the conspirators have relied on that given the stakes and their obvious willingness to commit murder.

What conspirators?  Did Colin say anything about conspirators?

  A more plausible narrative in that context is that Williams would have been detained on the floor until after the assassination, at which time he would have been killed with Oswald's rifle.

With what?  The assassin only brought 3 or 4 bullets, right?  He's going to waste one on BRW?  And miss his chance to shoot at the motorcade when people hear the gunshot?

  The story would be that Williams had lunch on the floor and was killed by Oswald during his escape.  A win-win for the fantasy conspirators as it further implicates Oswald and eliminates a witness.  The very last thing they would have done is allow a witness to exit the floor and risk exposing or thwarting the plot.

Yawn.  Yet another "I don't believe the conspirators I just made up would do X, therefore Oswald killed JFK" argument.

[Richard Smith]

Which is why I am not suggesting anything like that happened Richard. In fact I would agree with you that what you suggest did not happen. You know that Frazier claims that Fritz was pushing him to confess that night. I am sure Frazier had an alibi too. The reality is that for some time after the assassination Williams was reluctant to tell of his 6th floor lunch trip. His alibi pals lied on a number of occasions and told authorities he went up with them on the lift to the 5th floor. Surely you have to ask yourself, in a case of this importance, would you lie about someone who had been at the crime scene just before the shooting? Big risk if you are caught.

My understanding is that you suggested Williams had his lunch in the SN and hastily left.  Presumably in response to a demand from the someone involved in the assassination (Oswald or whomever since that would be on the only person on the floor at the relevant time).  I doubt he would have done that unless he was fearful for some reason.  In which case he would have encountered the shooter just a few minutes before the assassination.  Presumably under circumstances that would have made him suspicious if he abandons his lunch (as opposed to just not completely finishing it).  His silence is then explained as a product of his being a potential suspect although he is never treated as such by anyone.  Why would he believe he was a suspect when he was on another floor and had an iron clad alibi?  Even if he unreasonably came to this conclusion for some reason, surely he would have known at some point that he was not under suspicion.  It is hard to reconcile his leaving the 6th floor hastily, perhaps encountering someone on that floor who was the assassin, but then never saying a word.  And recollections about the location of his lunch on a floor full of boxes and windows doesn't rebut his own words on the matter.   On a practical note, I don't see anyone squeezing between the SN boxes to have lunch in that secluded spot.  Particularly if he expected others to join him on that floor.  More likely that his own description is accurate.

[John Mytton]

I can see why you're such a fan of Bugliosi.  Instead of making an evidence-based argument you try to ridicule the opposition instead.  just like he does.

The entirety of the evidence suggests that the lunch bag was not at the two-wheeler when the SN was first discovered, but that it was moved there afterwards and that BRW just ran with the story.  Why would a black man in 1963 Dallas (or even today) want to admit being next to the window the cops said that shots were fired from?  Not only do you have to deny the word of several witnesses to the lunch bag and the bones, but you have to deny Arnold Rowland's observation of a negro in the SE window at the same time BRW was on the 6th floor, all so you can cherry-pick one account over that of several others.

What physical evidence of Oswald's guilt?

Anything he would have done would be considered "incriminating" by you in true Monday morning quarterback fashion.

The entirety of the evidence...

The entirety of the evidence is from the Dallas Police, how can you tell when the Dallas Police were telling the truth and when were they lying?

but you have to deny Arnold Rowland's observation....

I saw what I thought was a man standing back about 15 feet from the windows and was holding in his arms what appeared to be a hi [sic] powered rifle because it looked like it had a scope on it. He appeared to be holding this at a parade rest sort of position. I mentioned this to my wife and merely made the remark that it must be the secret service [sic] men. This man appeared to be a white man and appeared to have a light colored shirt on, open at the neck. He appeared to be of slender build and appeared to have dark hair.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/arowland.htm

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Why do the vast majority of LN true believers (excluding JohnM here) have to religiously stick to the unlikely sequence of events trotted out by the WR?

Hi Colin, re Williams the WC's narrative was based on what Williams said in his testimony but personally I don't think that it makes sense for Williams not to go to the sniper's nest window to look for his friends because he managed to find his other friends at the corresponding windows on the floor below.



Also I reckon the WC had the same suspicions because at this point in the questioning, Ford "subtly" interjects and asks Williams about being in trouble with the law.

Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you see a good bit of the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see anything to the east side of the building. But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to the west of me.
Representative FORD.Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir.
Representative FORD.No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I have never been inside of a courthouse before.

JohnM

[Michael Clark]

John, I had a huge laugh over the change in the thread title. Thanks. For posterity, the title of this thread, right now, is ... “The Ed Forum is having a total Meltdown and chicken bones!”

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

As opposed to the "CTer" way of solving the case, which would include:

Inventing conspiracy scenarios that make no sense (e.g., having FRONTAL gunmen shoot at Kennedy within a "LET'S FRAME ONLY OSWALD" plot)....

Pretending everybody's a liar (or pert-near everybody anyway)....

Pretending that Oswald's actions and movements on 11/21/63 and 11/22/63 weren't the slightest bit unusual or out of the ordinary....

Pretending Oswald never told any lies at all to the police....

Pretending that certain events just never happened at all (e.g., the Lunchroom Encounter....and Oswald carrying a large-ish brown package into the Book Depository Building on the morning of 11/22/63)....

Etc. (to CT infinity).

You should not stereotype, everyone has a theory, you just have a lazy one. At some point in time, you gave up, you changed your mind like a woman. Remember you are the one supporting the WC claim, an open-ended claim. The thing is you don't even believe it and that is the funny part. I'm sure you have heard many times the silly theory about Grear the limo driver taking a shot, right? I'm sure you would agree that the Grear idea is absurd but one thing I can tell you, it is no more absurd than the bs you're peddling.