Why the first shot missed

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Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2019, 07:12:06 AM »
James Jarman to the W.C.

"Mr. JARMAN - After the motorcade turned, going west on Elm, then there was a loud shot, (one)or backfire, as I thought it was then--I thought it was a backfire.
Mr. BALL - You thought it was what?
Mr. JARMAN - A backfire or an officer giving a salute to the President. And then at that time I didn't, you know, think too much about it. And then the second shot (two)was fired, and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot (three)was fired right behind the second one.
Mr. BALL - Were you still on your knees looking up?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, after the third shot was fired, I think I got up and I run over to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, and told them, I said, I told them that it wasn't a backfire or anything, that somebody was shooting at the President.

Seems Jarman thought he heard three shots.

Seems simple enough, Jarman states the 2nd shot takes place before the limousine speeds away then another shot. Shot one is the neck/throat shot. Shot two is the head shot. The car speeds away and a third shot after the head shot?

James Jarman:

He said that he heard a shot and then saw President KENNEDY
move his right hand up to his head.
After an elapse of three
or four seconds, he heard a second shot and then the vehicle
bearing President KENNEDY speeded up
and he was unable to
observe any more about the presidential vehicle. He said a
third shot was heard- by-him closely following the second shot
possibly within/second or two afterward. He said these shots
sounded to him to be too loud to have been anywhere outside the
TSBD building.

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2019, 11:01:17 AM »
Seems simple enough, Jarman states the 2nd shot takes place before the limousine speeds away then another shot. Shot one is the neck/throat shot. Shot two is the head shot. The car speeds away and a third shot after the head shot?

James Jarman:

He said that he heard a shot and then saw President KENNEDY
move his right hand up to his head.
After an elapse of three
or four seconds, he heard a second shot and then the vehicle
bearing President KENNEDY speeded up
and he was unable to
observe any more about the presidential vehicle. He said a
third shot was heard- by-him closely following the second shot
possibly within/second or two afterward. He said these shots
sounded to him to be too loud to have been anywhere outside the
TSBD building.
"He said a third shot was heard by him closely following the second shot possibly within/ second or two afterward."

So you confirm he thought he heard three shots. Good.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2019, 02:01:57 PM »
"He said a third shot was heard by him closely following the second shot possibly within/ second or two afterward."

So you confirm he thought he heard three shots. Good.

Like so many others they add a shot. I am glad to see you are confirming he said the second shot was the headshot and a shot followed as the car was leaving Dealey Plaza.

Obviously you understood what he stated or there would not have been a reason to quote a later statement.

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2019, 02:06:16 PM »
Like so many others they add a shot. I am glad to see you are confirming he said the second shot was the headshot and a shot followed as the car was leaving Dealey Plaza.

Where did i confirm that the second shot was the headshot?

Quote
Obviously you understood what he stated or there would not have been a reason to quote a later statement.

I quoted him to contradict your belief that there were only two shots not three. You seem to have quoted  guy who disagrees with you.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2019, 02:40:39 PM »
Where did i confirm that the second shot was the headshot?

I quoted him to contradict your belief that there were only two shots not three. You seem to have quoted  guy who disagrees with you.

No, he clearly stated in the statement, it was there for all to read:
 "He said a third shot was heard- by-him closely following the second shot possibly within/second or two afterward"

You read his statement and understood he was talking about a second shot headshot because you felt the need to quote his WC statement in which he states the exact same thing. The car accelerates after the second shot and before the third. The acceleration takes place after the second shot headshot as evidenced by the Zapruder film.

Jarman WC:  "and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot (three)was fired right behind the second one."

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2019, 04:52:53 PM »
No, he clearly stated in the statement, it was there for all to read:
 "He said a third shot was heard- by-him closely following the second shot possibly within/second or two afterward"

You read his statement and understood he was talking about a second shot headshot because you felt the need to quote his WC statement in which he states the exact same thing. The car accelerates after the second shot and before the third. The acceleration takes place after the second shot headshot as evidenced by the Zapruder film.

Jarman WC:  "and that is when the people started falling on the ground and the motorcade car jumped forward, and then the third shot (three)was fired right behind the second one."

I don't understand your point Jack. He said there were three shots. You only two.

"Mr. BALL - How long was it before you ran down to the west end, from the time of the shots until you ran down to the west end, about how much time do you think it was?
Mr. BALL - After the third shot was fired I would say it was about a minute.
Mr. McCLOY You have had military experience, haven't you?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. And you can recognize rifle shots when you hear them?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY - But you didn't hear, you didn't catch the sound of the bolt moving?
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir.
Mr. McCLOY - Did you see the President actually hit by the bullets?
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir.
I couldn't say that I saw him actually hit, but after the second shot, I presumed that he was, because I had my eye on his car from the time it came down Houston until the time it started toward the freeway underpass.
Mr. McCLOY - You saw him crumple, you saw him fall, did you?
Mr. JARMAN - I saw him lean his head.
Representative FORD - You actually saw the car lurch forward, did you?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD That is a distinct impression?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Representative FORD - And you had followed it as it turned from Main on to Houston and followed it as it turned from Houston on to Elm?
Mr. JARMAN - Right, sir.
Representative FORD - Had your eye on the car all the time?
Mr JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - Where did you think the sound of the first shot came from? Do you have a distinct impression of that?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, it sounded, I thought at first it had came from below. That is what I thought.
Representative FORD - As you looked out the window and you were looking at the President's car.
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - Did you have a distinct impression as to whether the sound came from your left or from your right?
Mr. JARMAN - I am sure it came from the left.
Representative FORD - But your first reaction, that is was from below.
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - When the second shot came, do you have any different recollection?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, they all sounded just about the same.
Representative FORD - You distinctly recall three shots?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Representative FORD - And at what point did you get up from where you were on your knees in the window?
Mr. JARMAN - When the motorcar picked up speed.
Representative FORD - Was this after what you thought was the third shot?
Mr. JARMAN - The third shot; yes.

Representative FORD - McCloy said you had been in the army 8 years, two 4-year hitches. Was there any doubt in your mind that this was a gunshot, either one of the three?
Mr. JARMAN - Not after the second shot. I didn't have any doubt in my mind then.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 04:53:33 PM by Ray Mitcham »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Why the first shot missed
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2019, 04:56:47 PM »
Rosemary's slowing-and-stopping is like the head turns of the Connallys and Mrs. Kennedy. It is substantiated by the Zapruder film.

I believe she was standing pretty far up on Elm.

Since you brought up Phil Willis:

Liebeler   You couldn’t tell whether he was hit by the first shot? You couldn’t tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?
WillisNo, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention. When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively. It did cause me to wonder.
LiebelerYou say that the President looked toward his left; is that correct? Toward the side of Elm Street that you are standing on, or which way?
WillisIn slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward--straight ahead, and she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street.

When asked for specifics, Willis backed off his cavalier claims that Kennedy was hit by the first shot and that his 05 slide was taken at the instant of the shot.

She certainly doesn't do what you claim she does with that statement.

Could not be more clear. He states he reacts to the first shot by leaning forward. Just like he always stated the reaction to the shot made him take the picture.

Willis: "No, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention. When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward,"

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Jackie clearly states he reacts to the first shot. She also references Gov Connally crying out to the same shot that hit JFK. She is not going to explain a noise that never occurred because someone comes up with an odd theory someday in the future.

An early missed shot never happened. How that is known is the eyewitnesses state what happened. Why base the understanding of the shot sequence of the assassination off the beliefs of a 10 year old girl and ignore all the adults stating an entirely different story?