POLL. Is John Iacoletti right to separate the coupon from the envelope in CE773?

[John Iacoletti]

Of course it does, it's all part of the paper trail.

No, it's a picture of a coupon and an envelope sitting together.

Thanks Einstein.

I meant to say that a microfilm image is still a copy and therefore unreliable, even by pseudoscientific handwriting "analysis" standards.  So why are you trying to make a distinction?

Of course, who wrote what is important.

Not when you're trying to prove who ordered a specific object.  Who addressed an envelope is irrelevant.

Why would the procedure of how someone scans orders be in anyway relevant, you're losing the plot mate.

Well, for one thing, how would Waldman know how and when this alleged microfilm picture was taken and how it was composed?

The microfilm record shows that the grunt did their job properly, they recorded the rifle order along with the dispatch information.

No it doesn't.  It shows that there is a photo of a coupon and an envelope on a print made from a microfilm copy of a physical coupon that no longer exists.

To be honest Iacoletti, your arguments are weak and reek of desperation.

That would be you.

This isn't a "paper trail" at all.  It's a biased and subjective opinion about an image of unknown origin.

[John Mytton]

Well, for one thing, how would Waldman know how and when this alleged microfilm picture was taken and how it was composed?

Where does this go?, how do you expect a grunt to remember a specific order more than six months later and why do you reckon a question about when the grunt thought he did the work to be of any value whatsoever?

JohnM

[John Iacoletti]

Where does this go?, how do you expect a grunt to remember a specific order more than six months later and why do you reckon a question about when the grunt thought he did the work to be of any value whatsoever?

Perhaps said grunt could verify that he actually mailed a package to a Dallas PO box via the US postal service since there exists no actual evidence of such.

But a better question might be, why do you reckon a VP reading an FBI provided piece of microfilm and saying what he thinks it might mean is of any value whatsoever?

[John Mytton]

Perhaps said grunt could verify that he actually mailed a package to a Dallas PO box via the US postal service since there exists no actual evidence of such.

But a better question might be, why do you reckon a VP reading an FBI provided piece of microfilm and saying what he thinks it might mean is of any value whatsoever?

Perhaps said grunt could verify that he actually mailed a package to a Dallas PO box via the US postal service...

Why would said grunt have any need to remember in November one specific order that he posted in March who are you trying to convince with this obvious cheap tactic?

But a better question might be, why do you reckon a VP reading an FBI provided piece of microfilm and saying what he thinks it might mean is of any value whatsoever?

Again nice try, but Waldman sighted the rifle order on the the Kleins microfilm records on the evening of the 22nd which clearly had to be before he gave the film to the FBI.

Mr. BELIN. Was this on Friday evening, November 22?
Mr. WALDMAN. On Friday evening, November 22.
Mr. BELIN. Did the FBI indicate at what time, what period that they felt you might have received this rifle originally?
Mr. WALDMAN. We were able to determine from our purchase records the date in which the rifle had been received, and they also had a record of when it had been shipped, so we knew the approximate date of receipt by us, and from that we made---let's see, we examined our microfilm records which show orders from mail order customers and related papers, and from this determined to whom the gun had been shipped by us.
Mr. BELIN. Are these microfilm records part of your customary recording of transactions of your company?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; they are.



Even though after the information about the rifle order was found on the 22nd, the FBI didn't take the microfilm till the 23rd, it's possible that Kleins was taking a copy of the microfilm for themselves for their own bookkeeping and just in case they needed to look up another rifle or baseball bat or hockey stick or weights or whatever that was linked to another murder or simply just to look up a refund? Without their records they're cactus!

Mr. BELIN. Do you know when it was turned over to the FBI?
Mr. WALDMAN. It was turned over to them on November 23, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you are reading from the carton containing that microfilm. Do you know whose initials are on there?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes; the initials on here are mine and they were put on the date on which this was turned over to the FBI concerned with the investigation.
Mr. BELIN. You have on your premises a machine for looking at the microfilm prints?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And you can make copies of the microfilm prints?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.

JohnM

[Jerry Freeman]

Is John Iacoletti right to separate the coupon from the envelope in CE773?

What does it matter anyway?
A magician could not have made all that 'evidence' appear any faster than the FBI did in one evening.
It was almost like 21st century computer speed in 1963

[John Mytton]

What does it matter anyway?
A magician could not have made all that 'evidence' appear any faster than the FBI did in one evening.
It was almost like 21st century computer speed in 1963

You're joking, right? The President was just killed so they immediately traced the rifle which led to Kleins and the Kliens microfilm led to Hidell's PO Box which was owned by Oswald, Oswald worked in the Depository building and Oswald was also seen killing Tippit, see how this works, detective work is one logical deduction one after another.
All the evidence leads to Oswald.

JohnM

[Bill Chapman]

You're joking, right? The President was just killed so they immediately traced the rifle which led to Kleins and the Kliens microfilm led to Hidell's PO Box which was owned by Oswald, Oswald worked in the Depository building and Oswald was also seen killing Tippit, see how this works, detective work is one logical deduction one after another.
All the evidence leads to Oswald.

JohnM

Oswald started the evidence collection in Irving on New Assassination Eve and the rest stuck to him like post-it notes on practically every step he took thereafter.