CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?

[John Mytton]

Just wanted to point out here,that even IF it is true that Day lifted a print as he said, that by his own opinion here, the print was NOT a fresh print, because some of the print he could still see on the barrel after having lifted it with tape.

So even if it IS Oswalds MC rifle, that print on the barrel if it ever existed at all, could be weeks, or months old and thus NO proof that Oswald had assembled the rifle THAT DAY of Nov 22/63

The 3 colours of fibers that made up Oswald's brown shirt, (the same shirt Oswald wore THAT DAY of Nov 22/63), were matched to fibers found on Oswald's rifle. Oswald's rifle was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.



On the 22nd many photos were taken of Oswald's rifle's trigger guard and later Scalise used all of the photos of varying contrast to conclusively prove that the print were Oswald's. I can't insert the youtube video but is easily found "Vincent Scalise Identifies Lee Oswald Prints on Trigger Guard".



JohnM

[John Iacoletti]

The 3 colours of fibers that made up Oswald's brown shirt, (the same shirt Oswald wore THAT DAY of Nov 22/63), were matched to fibers found on Oswald's rifle. Oswald's rifle was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.

“Oswald’s rifle”. LOL.

Strangely enough, you forgot to include this part of Stombaugh’s testimony.

Mr. STOMBAUGH. There is just no way at this time to be able to positively state that a particular small group of fibers came from a particular source, because there just aren't enough microscopic characteristics present in these fibers.
We cannot say, "Yes, these fibers came from this shirt to the exclusion of all other shirts."

On the 22nd many photos were taken of Oswald's rifle's trigger guard and later Scalise used all of the photos of varying contrast to conclusively prove that the print were Oswald's.

Latona to the WC:

Mr. LATONA. I could see faintly ridge formations there. However, examination disclosed to me that the formations, the ridge formations and characteristics, were insufficient for purposes of either effecting identification or a determination that the print was not identical with the prints of people. Accordingly, my opinion simply was that the latent prints which were there were of no value.

Scalise, himself, to the HSCA:

“55. Latent fingerprint recovered from the trigger guard of a 6.5-millimeter, Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, serial no. C2766, processed at the Dallas Police Department. It is of no value for identification purposes.”

30 years later, Scalise looked at photos that Rusty Livingston pulled out of a briefcase and claimed that they were of the C2766 rifle and compared them to a fingerprint card that was claimed to be Oswald’s.

If these uncontrolled photos were authentic then not only did Scalise have access to the same photos in 1978, but both Latona and Scalise had access to the actual rifle to examine the prints directly.

[Walt Cakebread]

Just wanted to point out here,that even IF it is true that Day lifted a print as he said, that by his own opinion here, the print was NOT a fresh print, because some of the print he could still see on the barrel after having lifted it with tape.

So even if it IS Oswalds MC rifle, that print on the barrel if it ever existed at all, could be weeks, or months old and thus NO proof that Oswald had assembled the rifle THAT DAY of Nov 22/63

So even if it IS Oswalds MC rifle, that print on the barrel if it ever existed at all, could be weeks, or months old and thus NO proof that Oswald had assembled the rifle THAT DAY of Nov 22/63

That's a good point, Zeon...   However....  I'm 100% certain that the location seen in CE 637 is of the WOODEN foregrip ....The photo shows the bayonet slot at the right hand side of the exhibit.     Detective Day ( aka Barney Fife )  himself described the place as  on the bottom of the barrel about three inches back from the muzzle end of the wood stock   That description is right on the spot seen in the photo CE 637...   The back end of the bayonet slot is 3 & 1/2 inches to the rear of the muzzle end of the wooden stock . 

[Zeon Mason]

The 3 colours of fibers that made up Oswald's brown shirt, (the same shirt Oswald wore THAT DAY of Nov 22/63), were matched to fibers found on Oswald's rifle. Oswald's rifle was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.



On the 22nd many photos were taken of Oswald's rifle's trigger guard and later Scalise used all of the photos of varying contrast to conclusively prove that the print were Oswald's. I can't insert the youtube video but is easily found "Vincent Scalise Identifies Lee Oswald Prints on Trigger Guard".



JohnM

Or there was contamination from having placed rifle, paperbag and blanket all together on Will Fritz desk

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, I see the carved-out channel at the end of the wooden fore-stock that accommodates the blade of the folded-down bayonet. You are claiming that it caused the rectangular shape seen in the print lift (circled on right, below).



If the print came off the wooden stock, wouldn't there be some impression from the the stock's indentation for the forward sling-mount?

Maybe he meant the print was some three inches from the front end of the wooden stock if the barrel was placed back on the stock.

WOW!!...Thank you Mr Organ....I never expected a LNer to accomodate me and debate this point.  ( while providing photos also )

I see the carved-out channel at the end of the wooden fore-stock that accommodates the blade of the folded-down bayonet. You are claiming that it caused the rectangular shape seen in the print lift (circled on right, below).

Yes,..... But let me point out that the bayonet slot in the photo you posted appears to be wider than the bayonet groove on my carcanos....I own several carcanos and none of them have a groove like the groove on the carcano in the photo.    The grooves on my carcanos is not as wide and the sides are more parallel.   

If the print came off the wooden stock, wouldn't there be some impression from the the stock's indentation for the forward sling-mount?

No.... The photo of CE 637 doesn't show that portion of the rifles stock ( foregrip) The right hand side of the photo (CE 637 ) shows only about 3/4 of an inch of back end of the bayonet groove.

Maybe he meant the print was some three inches from the front end of the wooden stock if the barrel was placed back on the stock.

HUH?.... Three inches back from the forward end of the wooden stock is three inches .....Period!   It matters not if the metal barrel is fitted into the stock.

Day said that he spotted a print on THE SIDE of the barrel   ( The metal barrel) that disappeared beneath the wooden stock about three inches back from the forward end of the wooden stock.  ( Turns out his guess was pretty good.....The area circled is about 3  & 1 / 2 inches back from the end of the wooden stock.)

However....He said when he disassembled the rifle he saw the old print on the BOTTOM of the metal barrel and that's what he lifted.   

!) A man's palm print couldn't have wrapped half way around that 5 /8 inch metal barrel
2) Day said the print was on the BOTTOM of the barrel ...he did not say that the print extended halfway around the barrel....
3) there is nothing on the metal barrel that would have created the two parallel lines.

Thank you so much for posting the photo....

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, I see the carved-out channel at the end of the wooden fore-stock that accommodates the blade of the folded-down bayonet. You are claiming that it caused the rectangular shape seen in the print lift (circled on right, below).



If the print came off the wooden stock, wouldn't there be some impression from the the stock's indentation for the forward sling-mount?

Maybe he meant the print was some three inches from the front end of the wooden stock if the barrel was placed back on the stock.

I believe that Detective  Day was incorporating his lift from the TSBD into the tale they invented, and he was recalling what he thought was a palm print on the wooden stock when he saw it while checking the rifle for prints in the TSBD just minutes after he pulled it from beneath the pallet.    He said the print was about three inches back from the forward end ( muzzle end) of the WOODEN stock.  If he had found a print on the metal barrel he logically would have used the muzzle or the bayonet lug as a reference point.   
 

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, I see the carved-out channel at the end of the wooden fore-stock that accommodates the blade of the folded-down bayonet. You are claiming that it caused the rectangular shape seen in the print lift (circled on right, below).



If the print came off the wooden stock, wouldn't there be some impression from the the stock's indentation for the forward sling-mount?

Maybe he meant the print was some three inches from the front end of the wooden stock if the barrel was placed back on the stock.

let me point out that the bayonet slot in the photo you posted appears to be wider than the bayonet groove on my carcanos..

I think I know why the bayonet groove appears wider in the photo....  I believe the stock on the rifle in the photo has been sanded.....And the sanding rounded the sharp corners of the bayonet groove and that makes the groove appear to be wider than my carcanos.