BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963

[Colin Crow]

Feel free to address the document details when ready. Are the dates/times accurate or not? If not what should they be.

While your at it, how might Oswald's prints on the Paine garage rods advance the case? Not that I am a detective, perhaps I am missing something?

PS Oswald was a liar.

[Walt Cakebread]

Au contrare Tim, I sense you have not been following my contributions. The Paine rods obtained on the evening of the 23rd, were of no evidentiary value whatsoever, Oswald?s prints or not.

If the doc refers to the Paine rods and the entry date (3/15/64) is incorrect as you stated. Were they submitted after the Paine visit? Ie the next morning at 9.45am and then released after "printing" by Day 5 minutes later? Or are the times incorrect as well?

On the other hand if Howlett submitted rods discovered elsewhere for processing on the 15th, where might they have been found to warrant such analysis?

On the other hand if Howlett submitted rods discovered elsewhere for processing on the 15th, where might they have been found to warrant such analysis?

IF???.....   Do you doubt that Howlett presented curtain rods to the DPD crime lab ( J.C. Day) on March 15 1964??  And Howlett wanted them checked to see if Lee Oswald's prints were on them??

[Denis Pointing]

Au contrare Tim, I sense you have not been following my contributions. The Paine rods obtained on the evening of the 23rd, were of no evidentiary value whatsoever, Oswald?s prints or not.

If the doc refers to the Paine rods and the entry date (3/15/64) is incorrect as you stated. Were they submitted after the Paine visit? Ie the next morning at 9.45am and then released after "printing" by Day 5 minutes later? Or are the times incorrect as well?

On the other hand if Howlett submitted rods discovered elsewhere for processing on the 15th, where might they have been found to warrant such analysis?

Hi Collin, with due respect to Tim, I can't accept his 'mistaken date' hypothesis. If you'rd care to follow my link (below) you'll find all the photos/documents that the Dallas Municipal Archives possess concerning the rods. If you 'blow up' the document in question, which is clearer than the one posted by Alan, you'll see the release time is actually 7.50a, not 9.50a. Obviously, the release time can't be 2hrs earlier than the submit time and to suggest two mistakes were made, IMO, just isn't feasible. Amazingly, you will also find a photo/document, which shows the reverse side of rod 275, which is dated 3-25-64, one day after the release date!?! Nothing in this case is easy, is it? lol As I posited in a previous post, I would put forward the possibility that agent Howlet, removed and submitted the garage rods on the 3-15-64 and then replaced them before the garage visit by himself, Jenner and RP. As John Iacoletti, points out, this may well have been technically illegal.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/JFKDP/browse/?q=curtain&t=fulltext&sort=

[Alan Ford]

Affidavit Of Ruth Hyde Paine

The following affidavit was executed by Ruth Hyde Paine on June 24, 1964.

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS, County of Dallas, ss: Ruth Hyde Paine, being affirmed, says:

1. I reside at 2515 West 5th Street, Irving, Texas. I am the Ruth Hyde Paine who testified before the Commission on March 18, 19 and 20, 1964, and gave testimony by deposition in Washington, D.C. at the offices of the Commission on Saturday, March 21, 1964, and gave further testimony by deposition in my home the evening of Monday, March 23, 1964.

The "garage adventure" took place on the evening of 3/23/64?

If so the "date error"  theorists claim that the date that Howlett provided Day with the garage rods was actually the next morning, 3/24/94 at 9.45am. Day then processed the rods with particular focus on Oswald's prints and released them back to Howlett at 9.50am. Remarkably fast processing......

Oh, it's even worse than that, Mr Crow. The release date is actually 7.50 a. m.:



I pointed this fact out to Mr Nickerson many pages back, but of course he never got back to me on it!

 

[Alan Ford]

Denis, If you think on it a bit, the most reasonable explanation for this whole thing is that March 15 was marked in error. That is, the curtain rods were submitted to the DPD crime lab by Howlett on Mar 23, not Mar 15.

 

So you're backing off from your wild and rather desperate 'missing-documentation' speculation (involving an elaborate sham by Agent Howlett and Mr Jenner for the purpose of... no good reason whatsoever) and are now back to your original wild and rather desperate 'mistaken date' speculation?

Too funny!

But what the heck, let's play the Mistaken Date Game:

What time on 23-March-not-15-March (!) might Agent Howlett have submitted the 2 curtain rods he had just taken from the Paine garage?

 

[Alan Ford]

That?s always the go-to excuse for inconvenient evidence.

Trouble is, the release date and time (24 March, 7.50 a.m.) mean that no other date works either!

[Alan Ford]

Again, Oswald told Frazier that he went to the Paine residence to obtain curtain rods.  The investigators were simply doing due diligence to check the only curtain rods found at that location to see if there was any link to Oswald.

To see if there was any link to Oswald? Are you kidding, Mr Smith? The Paine home was where Mr Oswald's wife lived and where he had overnighted 11/21-11/22. These rods weren't taken from the Carousel Club!

What conceivable difference would a positive result for Mr Oswald's prints on 2 rods taken from the Paine garage have had? Hm?