Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Colin Crow]

Thankyou Colin for that correction. Jarman WC testimony verifies that:

Mr. BALL - Did you take an elevator or the stairs?
Mr. JARMAN - We took the elevator.
Mr. BALL - Which elevator?
Mr. JARMAN - The west side elevator.
Mr. BALL - That is the one you use a punch button on, isn't it?
Mr. JARMAN - Right
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN - To the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - We just decided to go to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL - Was there any reason why you should go to the fifth floor any more than the fourth or the sixth?
Mr. JARMAN - No.
Mr. BALL - Did you know who made the suggestion you go to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, I don't know if it was myself or Hank.
Mr. BALL - When you got there was there anybody on the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did you do when you got to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - We got out the elevator and pulled the gate down. That was in case somebody wanted to use it. Then we went to the front of the building, which is on the south side, and raised the windows.
Mr. BALL - Which windows did you raise?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, Harold raised the first window to the east side of the building, and I went to the second rear windows and raised, counting the windows, it would be the fourth one.
Mr. BALL - It would be the fourth window?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did somebody join you then?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir; a few minutes later.
Mr. BALL - Who joined you?
Mr. JARMAN - Bonnie Ray Williams.


"A Few Minutes Later" = 2 minutes after Jarman and Norman are at their windows, having arrive there, not earlier than 12:24, even if using the West elevator. Which means 12:26 the earilest BRW arrives to their windows.


So the problem is still unresolved, how Oswald could have gone onto the floor of 6th floor and get to the SE corner window by 12:23:30 in time to have placed a box in the window so it would be recorded in the Bronson film at 12:24.


How does BRW and "the box placing person/shooter or Oswald) miss each other, traveling on the 6th floor if Bonnie Ray Williams is still at the SE window at 12:22 because if he left then, it would have only taken him 30 sec to reach either West or East Elevator, thus would have been on the 5th floor by 12:23 BEFORE Jarman and Norman even reentered the back door of the TSBD at approx 12:23 because they had just walked around the building from the front to rear, after having heard the 12:22 radio transmission or someone talking about the "news" that JFK limo was approaching


Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.

Williams took the east elevator up to the 6th and down to the 5th. The east elevator could only be operated manually, ie "driven" by an operator, so once Williams had taken it up to the 6th, only someone on that floor could enter and operate it.

[Walt Cakebread]

What we know is that Williams was aware that Oswald was in custody and under suspicion. He was at the police station because Fritz had asked Stenkel to collect all those who had been on that floor during the morning and obtain statements from them. Arce, Lovelady, Dougherty and Shelley were also at the police station when Oswald was brought in. He was also aware that the 6th floor was important.  Also, he and Jarman and Norman claimed they heard shots above them.Williams did not know that his lunch was a factor at the time he made the first statement. He likely heard of its importance during the evening and next day. 

Also at this time the police knew from Rowland that there was someone wandering around the sixth floor with a rifle about 12.15 or so.

His unfinished lunch was originally found in the SN (but moved shortly after the discovery of the shells) and he left the 6th floor about 5 minutes before the shots rang out.

Just a few hours after the President was shot, Williams says nothing of his presence on the sixth floor after the "elevator race". He also says nothing about seeing Oswald just prior to the shooting.

we know that Williams was aware that Oswald was in custody and under suspicion.

That's true, but at the time that BRW was at the police station,  Williams had no way of knowing that Lee Oswald was going to be charged as the lone nut assassin who fired from the SE corner window where he had eaten his lunch.    Williams apparently thought that Lee was a suspect who had been involved .... 

If BRW had known that Lee was going to be accused of firing a rifle from the sixth floor,  Would BRW have said..." Hey, I was eating my lunch on the sixth floor and I never saw Lee Oswald there while I was there". 

Personally, I believe Williams could have honestly made that statement while he was at the police station....   But at that time nobody was saying that Lee Harrrrrrvey Ossssswald the arch villain had fired that old military rifle from  Bonnie Ray Williams lunch table.

[Oscar Navarro]

The brief that analysis lawyers Ball, Belin etc were essentially working from.

"We are supposed to be closing doors not opening them." J Lee Rankin.

The Warren Report. A timely sedative that served a purpose for us all.

The Presidents Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy was established by Executive Order NO. 11130 on November 29, 1963. Senate Joint Resolution 137 (Public Law 88-102) empowered the commission to issue subpoenas. The CJUS, two senators, two congressmen, and two private citizens made up the Presidents Commission. J. Lee Rankin was selected as Chief Counsel after the first nominee was rejected by the Commission members as being to close to CJ Warren. This rejection gave notice to Warren that the commission was not to be a rubber stamp for the leaders wishes (although Commission Members did yield to Warren's unfortunate decision not to make the autopsy photos and X--Ray's available to the Commission thus yielding to Warren's over sensitive feelings for the former POTUS). J. Lee Rankin was a former assistant attorney general and the Solicitor General of the United States during the Eisenhower Administration before moving to private practice January, 1961

The Commission was made up of 14 Assistant Counsel and 12 named staff members plus additional personnel were hired to perform specialized functions, such as for the writing of the report.
The Assistant Counsel;

Francis W. H. Adams, (Satterlee, Warfield, & Stephens private law firm based in NYC and D.C)
Joseph A. Ball, (Ball, Hunt & Hart private law firm based in Long Beach and Santa Ana, CA)
David W. Belin, (Herrick, Langdon, Sandblom & Belin, private law firm based in Des Moines, Iowa)
William T. Coleman, Jr., (Dilworth, Paxon, Kalish, Kohn & Dilks private law firm based in Philadelphia)
Melvin Aron Eisenberg, (Kaye, Scholer, Fierman, Hays & Handler private law firm based in NYC)
Burt W. Griffin, (MacDonald, Hopkins, & Hardy private law firm based in Cleveland, OH)
Leon D. Hubert, Jr., (Hubert, Bladwin & Zibilich private law firm in NO, Louisiana)
Albert E. Jenner, Jr., (Raymond, Meyer, Jenner & Block private law firm based in Chicago)
Wesley L. Liebeler, (Carter, Ledyard & Milburn private law firm based in NYC)
Norman Redlich, (Professor of Law, NYU)
W. David Slawson, (Davis, Graham & Stubbs private law firm based in Denver, CO)
Arlen Specter, (assistant Philadelphia district attorney and private law firm of Specter & Katz, Philadelphia, PA)
Samuel A. Stern, (Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering private law firm based in D. C)
Howard P. Willens, (Second Assistant, Criminal Division USDJ)

Of the 14 Assistant Counsel selected to conduct the overwhelming majority of witness interrogation and selection of witnesses 12 came directly from private practice, one a law professor and one, Willens, was the only associate member who worked for the federal government prior to being selected. It was these guys who collected and analyzed the reports submitted by various agencies of the federal, state and local government for the purpose of determining the value and truthfulness of witnesses. When expert witnesses were called the associate members in whose area the testimony fell had the responsibility to become very familiar with the subject. Whenever you see an FBI report of any type of investigation dated after the initial FBI investigation report was submitted it was thanks to the associate members insistence that such investigations were conducted. These guys weren't forced to take pay cuts, time away from their family, perform long hours of exhausting work in cramped quarters just to rubber stamp what is presented by many as just a forgone conclusion. They had doubts, their own agendas, their own theories and they certainly didn't have any obligations to the commission or the federal government that would require them to be in a position that their jobs and careers were on the line unless orders were strictly followed. They were there to perform their duty as they saw fit and  were free to leave and not be held accountable, as some did.

 

[Oscar Navarro]

He either saw the shot or he didn't.  Which is it?

By the way, Brennan also claimed in his book that he saw JFK's head explode.  That's some fast reflexes there.

P.S. How do you know that Brennan "identified both Jarman and Norman when they came down from the fifth floor"?  Did he specify who was who and what window each were at?  What about Williams?  And were those guys crouched behind boxes or hanging out windows?

Brennan definitely identified both Jarman and Norman. Read his testimony.

[Oscar Navarro]

Here is what Norman said.....

Mr. BALL. Did you stay there?
Mr. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went back in the building, James Jarman and I.

He doesn?t say how or from whom he got the news. Maybe it was second hand. But there was a transmission from car 1, that they were approaching Main about 12.22pm. Why would Norman make that up? How do you know that wasn?t the reason Jarman and Norman changed from going with Givens to the parking lot on Record to the 5th floor of the TSBD?

The motorcade was running late and maybe someone in the crowd thought the motorcade should be in Main St by now...like 12:15 so that's the possible source for Norman's initial 12:15 PM time. As I have said before I don't believe any of the three Amigos was lying. 

[Colin Crow]

The motorcade was running late and maybe someone in the crowd thought the motorcade should be in Main St by now...like 12:15 so that's the possible source for Norman's initial 12:15 PM time. As I have said before I don't believe any of the three Amigos was lying.

What Norman said......

"About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me." 12/4/63

Not a specific time but an approximation.......

What did he say on March 18?

When did Jarman say they all went up?

When did Williams say they all went up in his first day statement? Of course after that his "story" changed.

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

The motorcade was running late and maybe someone in the crowd thought the motorcade should be in Main St by now...like 12:15 so that's the possible source for Norman's initial 12:15 PM time. As I have said before I don't believe any of the three Amigos was lying.

Of course, you don't

Mr. BALL. When the cement fell on your head, did either one of the men notice it and say anything about it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I believe Harold was the first one.
Mr. BALL. That is Hank Norman?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe he was the first one. He said "Man, I know it came from there. It even shook the building." He said, "You got something on your head." And then James Jarman said, "Yes, man, don't you brush it out." By that time I just forgot about it. But after I got downstairs I think I brushed it out anyway.

Question:   Why does cement dust fall on William's head, if it actually did?
Answer: gravity

The real question is about: When Norman says to Williams "you got something on your head"  and then Jarman says to Williams "yes man, don't brush it out"
Explain why Jarman would tell him not to "brush it out"?    It sure seems Williams likes to have a keen observation of fine detail and oddly enough adds more then he is asked of like he is coached which explains the pictures they have of the 3 as if they are from the actual moment of the assassination. Total shell game