Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Oscar Navarro]

Face it, a reasonable person can not conclude the witnesses you offer are credible, and you said "several witnesses" and pick the ones that didn't see anything. Claiming to hear casings hit the 6th floor above is ridiculous. Because of Harold Norman's own testimony doesn't show any relation between the sound of gunfire and the ejected casings, [/b][/u]

Excellent Mr K.....   Harold Norman is on record as mimicking the sounds he said that he heard that day....( He never heard any such sounds, but LBJ's cover up committee wanted him to lie, and so he did)   

Norman described the sounds a BOOM....Click, clack .....Boom ....click, clack, .... Boom.... Click, clack.....and he swore that he heard the shells hit the floor above his head...

If Norman  had heard shells falling on the floor he would have described the sounds he heard as BOOM....Click, PLINK,..  clack .....Boom ....click, Plink, .. clack, .... Boom.... Click,  PLINK .. clack....

Norman lied...Just as LBJ's cover up committee wanted him to do.....

You're describing the sounds you hear as your miniscule brain attempts to think, Foghorn.

[Walt Cakebread]

I never said that you said Brennen, but what you said was this-

"And it just so happens that several people saw a sniper either shoot from that window, saw a rifle or what looked like a rifle being retracted from the window, three witnesses who were one floor below hear shots coming from right above them one of which heard the distinct sounds of shells hitting the floor above him and of the rifle bolt being operated. That's called a mass imaginary illusion. The one who is imagining is that one who refuses to accept that there was actually a sniper in the SN shooting at JFK."


So then, I said "you said "several witnesses" and pick the ones that didn't see anything. Claiming to hear casings hit the 6th floor above is ridiculous".


I brought Brennen and I never said you did. I used what Brennen claims to try to pin down the 3  who were on 5th floor, specifically Norman's testimony.  I have problems with Brennen(who I brought up) and problems with the 3 clowns on the 5th floor(who you brought up).

When you say "several witnesses" what the hell does that mean? Does it mean you get to cherry-pick a few out of "several"? I'm asking because if you take, for example, your 3 clowns on the 5th floor then I will add Brennen plus the Rowlands for argument's sake, all to show they their claims conflict with one another's.

1- The 3 clowns on 5th floor make a claim of sound not sight
2-the Rowlands claim to see a man with a gun at one point and notices another man on the same floor well before the assassination dismissing it thinking they were security
3 Brennen who claims to have seen a man with a gun before during and after (I should note Brennen in his testimony, affidavits, and public interviews states variations but its confusing)

Brennen who claims to have seen a man with a gun before during and after (I should note Brennen in his testimony, affidavits, and public interviews states variations but its confusing)

I don't believe that HB said he saw the "High Powered rifle ie;  (HUNTING RIFLE) before the shooting....He said he saw the 175 pound man who was dressed in light colored khaki clothes AIMING the HIGH POWERED rifle DURING the shooting and he saw him place the rifle down at his side after the shooting....

His testimony was intended to be confusing....LBJ's cover up committee wanted us pissants to be confused.....

[Jerry Freeman]

  The 3 clowns on 5th floor make a claim of sound not sight 

Who was it that called them Larry, Curly, and Moe....wasn't it Howard Gee?
 

[Walt Cakebread]

You're describing the sounds you hear as your miniscule brain attempts to think, Foghorn.

OK ...Genius....  Did Norman say he heard the shells hitting the floor...A simple yes or no.... 

And IF he did actually hear spent shells hitting the floor ....and he said he heard the bolt being operated ...

Then wouldn't he have heard    Boom...Click ....Plink ...clack ....................Boom  etc ;   

Isn't that true? .....( I hope you say no.... and further display your dishonesty.)....

[Bill Chapman]

This is my original post;

"And it just so happens that several people saw a sniper either shoot from that window, saw a rifle or what looked like a rifle being retracted from the window, three witnesses who were one floor below hear shots coming from right above them one of which heard the distinct sounds of shells hitting the floor above him and of the rifle bolt being operated. That's called a mass imaginary illusion. The one who is imagining is that one who refuses to accept that there was actually a sniper in the SN shooting at JF" post #153


The several witnesses who either saw the sniper shooting (A), part of the gun being withdrawn(B), what appeared to be something that could be a gun(C), or movement after the third shot(D) are;

1) Howard L. Brennan(A)

2) Amos Lee Euins(A)

3) Robert H. Jackson(B)

4) Mrs. Earle Cabell(C)

5) James N. Crawford(D)


The Rowlands, in plural as in Mr. and Mrs. Rowland, didn't see ****. Arnold Rowlands claims are about as bogus as a $3 bill. Mrs. Rowland never saw anything that her husband claimed and even added that Arnold tends to exaggerate things.


Brennan never claimed to have seen a man with a gun before the shots and his only discrepancy has to do with whether he could have identified Oswald as the man he saw shooting from the sixth floor SE corner window. He first claimed that it could have been Oswald but then later clarified his statement to the WC and declared that "in all sincerity" he could have identified Oswald during the lineup but didn't so because he feared he was the only witness at the time who could have identified the shooter and, fearing that it might be a Communist conspiracy, decided not to positively identify Oswald in the lineup.

Arnie initially said the figure in the west window was about 10-12 feet (or so) back of the window, but later changed that to 3-5 feet or so. This is one reason why the investigators interviewed him often, and checked his backstory thoroughly. Of course these characters see nothing but sinister intent.

And yes, Arnie himself said he pointed out the man to his wife, but by the time see looked the guy was gone from view.

[Colin Crow]

Brennan did not sit on the retaining wall until after the epileptic was taken away by the ambulance as you believe. He saw the man having an epileptic fit before he sat on the ledge. He then assumed that he had been picked up by an ambulance.

Mr. BELIN. And then after lunch, where did you go?
Mr. BRENNAN. I finished lunch and I glanced at a clock--I don't know exactly where the clock is located--and noticed it was 12:18. So I thought I still had a few minutes, that I might see the parade and the President. I walked to the corner of Houston and Elm.
Mr. BELIN. What route did you take to get to Houston and Elm?
Mr. BRENNAN. I went west on Main.
Mr. BELIN. You went west on Main from Record Street to--
Mr. BRENNAN. Houston.
Mr. BELIN. Houston
Mr. BRENNAN. And on the east side of Houston, I walked to Elm.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BRENNAN. Crossed the street to the southwest corner of Houston and Elm.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any estimate about how long it took you to get there?
Mr. BRENNAN. A possibility I would say more or less 4 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do when you got to the southwest corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. BRENNAN. I stayed around a couple of minutes. There was a man having an epileptic fit, a possibility of 20 yards east--south of this corner. And they
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were being attended by some civilians and officers, and I believe an ambulance picked him up.........

Representative Ford. Are those the positions where you were sitting on November 22?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. At about 12
Mr. BRENNAN. From about 12:22 or 12:24 until the time of the assassination...........

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, could you please tell the Commission what happened from the time you sat on that retaining wall, what you saw?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I was more or less observing the crowd and the people in different building windows, including the fire escape across from the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store, and also the Texas Book Store Building windows. I observed quite a few people in different windows. In particular, I saw this one man on the sixth floor which left the window to my knowledge a couple of times.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you say the window on the sixth floor. What building are you referring to there?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the Texas Book Store............

Mr. BELIN. Could you make that line a little darker, sir, that you have put on. All right. Now, at that first point, this would be--
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe I walked a little south there, just observing them picking the man up.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
You have marked a line on Exhibit No. 478 heading a little bit south on the west side of Houston street, commencing at the southwest corner of the intersection, which is where you say you walked to watch the man with the epileptic fit, is that it?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I didn't go up--he was almost center way of the block here. I didn't go up that far.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And will you put the letter "H" there, if you would?
Mr. BRENNAN. Where I was standing watching the man?
Mr. BELIN. Where you were standing watching the man; yes.
Mr. BRENNAN. Right there.

Seems to me he says he observed them pick the man up while he was standing. Then he went to sit on the retaining wall. The ambulance did not arrive until about 12.24. (Police transcripts).

Why go with Brennan?s vague time estimate when we have actual timestamps to confirm more accurately. In any event Brennan was clearly focussed on the man with the seizure until he sat on the retaining wall. At that time he starts to observe the surrounding buildings.....TSBD etc. that is the salient point.

And you refuse to respond with an opinion regarding the factual statement posed relating to Williams first day transcript. Seems intentional, why? Fear?

Happy to discuss Norman by the way whenever you are ready.

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

This is my original post;

"And it just so happens that several people saw a sniper either shoot from that window, saw a rifle or what looked like a rifle being retracted from the window, three witnesses who were one floor below hear shots coming from right above them one of which heard the distinct sounds of shells hitting the floor above him and of the rifle bolt being operated. That's called a mass imaginary illusion. The one who is imagining is that one who refuses to accept that there was actually a sniper in the SN shooting at JF" post #153


The several witnesses who either saw the sniper shooting (A), part of the gun being withdrawn(B), what appeared to be something that could be a gun(C), or movement after the third shot(D) are;

1) Howard L. Brennan(A)

2) Amos Lee Euins(A)

3) Robert H. Jackson(B)

4) Mrs. Earle Cabell(C)

5) James N. Crawford(D)


The Rowlands, in plural as in Mr. and Mrs. Rowland, didn't see ****. Arnold Rowlands claims are about as bogus as a $3 bill. Mrs. Rowland never saw anything that her husband claimed and even added that Arnold tends to exaggerate things.


Brennan never claimed to have seen a man with a gun before the shots and his only discrepancy has to do with whether he could have identified Oswald as the man he saw shooting from the sixth floor SE corner window. He first claimed that it could have been Oswald but then later clarified his statement to the WC and declared that "in all sincerity" he could have identified Oswald during the lineup but didn't so because he feared he was the only witness at the time who could have identified the shooter and, fearing that it might be a Communist conspiracy, decided not to positively identify Oswald in the lineup.

Who said these witnesses didn't see anything?

You are a sensitive one when challenged. This would be a lot easier if you, with all the witnesses of your choosing, would come up with a time the first shot was fired. If you are certain of your witnesses and their testimony then you should not have a problem coming up with a time of the first shot being fired.