Ruth Paine - Absolutely part of a conspiracy

[Michael Walton]

Yeah sorry mate,I'm not a fan of Kennedy at all

Oswald treated his wife badly but so did JFK

I just seek truth unbiased, Its a murder it doesn't matter who you like more

It's like shooting fish in a barrel though

this case (WR) is like swiss cheese

That's even better, Ed.  Finally, someone who actually does not like Kennedy but is looking at this whole thing with an unjaundiced eye. Great.

[Walt Cakebread]

Ed, I've joined this thread late but for what it's worth - kudos to you.  This is how I've always looked at this too.  There are just way too many coincidences to all of this. My father was kind of like Oswald - a mere nobody dockworker (shipping and receiving) getting by at MAFCO in the Midwest. But it's always been amazing for me to imagine for all of this to happen to a mere "nobody" nut like the official story tries to paint Oswald.

Of course the official story supporters will always continue to say, "yep, that's how it was. Bless Ruth...bless her [Quaker - big emphasis on neutral/humble Quaker] heart."

The real, everyday world just does not work like that. I can live with one coincidence...but that many? Paine was literally glued to these freaking people, yet it's all from her good, caring heart?

One other thing I want to add - for those still supporting the official story...IMO if they didn't hate President Kennedy so much, they'd have a much more open mind about seeing the inconsistencies in the story.

I'd like to point out that our dear Ruthie, a poor Quaker housewife, was determined to learn to read write, and speak Russian....

And she started her quest about the time that Hoover knew that The Oswald's would be coming to Texas from Russia....

[Steve M. Galbraith]

She is still alive and has never wavered from her story right? I would hope she would have by now. Something still does not seem right about the Paines. She stated she was learning Russian to speak to Marina but she also was teaching Russian(if I heard that right). I am of the sense that she was some sort of handler but of course it's just an opinion.

From what I've read she learned Russian in college - both at Penn University and Middlebury college - and, as an adult, offered a course teaching it at a community college in Dallas/Ft. Worth (only one person signed up for it). She took in both Oswalds, in part, because they were desperately poor - Oswald lived on unemployment checks for long stretches - and she, based on her Christian/Quaker teachings, wanted to help them. She met the Oswalds at a party and talked to both in her passable Russian. It's true, as you pointed out, that one of the reasons she took Marina in was because she wanted to help her Russian.

My source for some of the above is Thomas Mallon's book, "Mrs. Paine's Garage." But some of this was also in her WC testimony and her grand jury testimony in the Garrison investigation (that's here: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/garr/grandjury/Paine/html/Paine_0001a.htm).

There is no evidence that I consider remotely plausible that she was a handler for the Oswalds or that she worked for US intelligence. These connections between friends of her parents (while they were in college?) and the CIA or government aren't very persuasive. My late father worked for the FBI; I have never spent a second working for them. And really, do you know who your parent's friends were when they were in college? Before you were born? I sure don't.

Finally: if her and her husband's mission was to frame Oswald they could have made very serious charges against him. For example that he expressed hatred for JFK, or that she saw the rifle in the garage, or that he threatened JFK, et cetera. Neither Paine made any remarks at all implicating Oswald directly into the act. He was dead, they certainly could have.

[Eddie Haymaker]

yeah so 57-63 learning Russian

thats 7 years inclusive by 1963 learning Russian

She claimed (to the WC) she could speak only very poorly

but in 1963 was teaching Russian

When you look into RP's testimony there are many provable lies

She seems super stoney face for a housewife implicated in a murder

this argument "she could have done this,she could have done that"

stop it - it's lame

It was obviously unnecessary for that - his goose was cooked

[Steve Howsley]

She seems super stoney face for a housewife implicated in a murder

Some men have a problem with a strong minded independent woman. Especially so if that woman expresses liberal points of view on freedom and individual rights. That's a reality that women like Ruth Paine have to deal with even today.

[Michael Walton]

Some men have a problem with a strong minded independent woman. Especially so if that woman expresses liberal points of view on freedom and individual rights. That's a reality that women like Ruth Paine have to deal with even today.

There's nothing "strong-minded" about it Steve.  You can't just brush all of this stuff aside just because the WC says there's nothing to be seen. The whole premise of the WC was to ensure that a single person did the murders and no conspiracy existed. That was the entire mandate from the get-go.

With that said, go here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ForensicFilesChannel/videos

These are actual murder cases as told by the seasoned detectives and prosecutors and lawyers. The Kennedy case was no more nor no less any real than any of these cases.  I dare you to watch any of the 300 odd episodes and find in *any* of them where, upon discovering a dead body, investigators huddle together and say, "yep, Mr. Mustard did it.  Exclude all avenues of investigation except those that lead to Mr. Mustard."

Real-world investigation doesn't work like the Kennedy case did. The entire "case" was predetermined. So really anyone who still falls for what happened based on the WR has truly been hoodwinked the entire 55 years since it happened.

[Bill Brown]

There's nothing "strong-minded" about it Steve.  You can't just brush all of this stuff aside just because the WC says there's nothing to be seen. The whole premise of the WC was to ensure that a single person did the murders and no conspiracy existed. That was the entire mandate from the get-go.

With that said, go here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/ForensicFilesChannel/videos

These are actual murder cases as told by the seasoned detectives and prosecutors and lawyers. The Kennedy case was no more nor no less any real than any of these cases.  I dare you to watch any of the 300 odd episodes and find in *any* of them where, upon discovering a dead body, investigators huddle together and say, "yep, Mr. Mustard did it.  Exclude all avenues of investigation except those that lead to Mr. Mustard."

Real-world investigation doesn't work like the Kennedy case did. The entire "case" was predetermined. So really anyone who still falls for what happened based on the WR has truly been hoodwinked the entire 55 years since it happened.

I dare you to watch any of the 300 odd episodes and find in *any* of them where, upon discovering a dead body, investigators huddle together and say, "yep, Mr. Mustard did it.  Exclude all avenues of investigation except those that lead to Mr. Mustard."

Except... the Warren Commission did not exclude all avenues of investigation except those that lead to Lee Oswald.

This just shows me (and should show others) that you criticize the Warren Commission without having ever read it's report.

That doesn't make sense.  You don't make sense.