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Author Topic: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges  (Read 10781 times)

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #170 on: September 16, 2018, 02:11:08 PM »
There was nobody firing a rifle from that SE corner window at the time of the murder....

Why do you think that?

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #170 on: September 16, 2018, 02:11:08 PM »


Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #171 on: September 16, 2018, 03:00:22 PM »
November 23 FBI Interview

On Saturday the 23rd, the day after the assassination Williams was visited by FBI  Agents Odum and Griffin and a statement prepared following his interview with them. We must bear in mind that just 24 hours after the assassination the only people who would be aware of a gunman on the 6th floor of the TSBD as early as 12.15pm the day before  would be the assassin (s), Arnold Rowland and his wife, Roger Craig and the few police and officials who were involved with Rowland's statement (or were subsequently informed) and Rosemary Allen (the notary who signed his statement). Another person who might have known was the man who Rowland claimed to have observed in the SN prior to 12.15 until about 12.25pm.

Some changes from the day before are and Williams contradicted his statement given just the day before to the DPD. He shifted the time to 11.30am for the descent in the elevator in an attempt to distance himself by 20 minutes from the events that took place less than an hour later. It would be clear from the evidence of the other members of the floor laying crew and foreman Bill Shelley that the men did indeed break for lunch but not until about 11.50am. In addition he now remembered seeing Oswald on the 5th floor, as the elevator went down.  Just the day before he doesn’t remember this sighting at all. Givens was operating the other freight elevator (east) and so BRW was on west elevator. Could Williams, in the west elevator really see Oswald standing to the east of the east elevator?

Significantly,  he now told of the lunch trip to the 6th floor. There are no details provided as to the contents of the lunch. He claimed he went back upstairs about 12 (if we apply a 20 minute time shift correction this actually occurred closer to 12.10pm). His stay on the 6th floor only lasts three minutes, obviously not enough time to finish lunch!  If we add the time shift correction he arrives on the 6th floor at 12.10, walks to a position to watch the motorcade and is gone by 12.13pm. Is he trying to avoid being anywhere on the 6th Floor from 12.15 onwards?

Williams claimed to have seen no one and goes down the stairs to the 5th floor and now meets up with Jarman and Norman. They took up a position at the southern windows at "approximately the middle of the building" to watch the motorcade. He heard 2 shots coming from above. He did not hang his head out the window but "glanced up and saw no one". 

He ran to west side windows with the others and, while there, sees an officer (Baker?) come up on the elevator. Did he hear the elevator operating and assume it was Baker (and Truly) who used it? Was someone using the elevator at that time (Dougherty?). Remember Sandra Styles claimed Adams saw the elevator cables moving when the girls descended the stairs. He stated they were standing in a position to see the stairs but saw no one other than the policeman. (Not Oswald or even Dougherty). He also stated that someone might have been coming down on the elevator and he might not notice. If at this time both elevators were supposedly locked on the 5th floor….how was that possible?

He went to 4th floor (by elevator or stairs?) and met with women there. Williams said that no one was in the SN that morning prior to break for lunch. On the sixth floor, he went to the windows on the south side "middle of the building" and saw no one "standing". He saw Frazier on 6th floor talking to Shelley between 10 and 11am. Was this Frazier asking Shelley if the men would be allowed to stop work to get to see the President if the parade
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 03:02:33 PM by Colin Crow »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #172 on: September 16, 2018, 03:27:40 PM »
Junior Jarman provided the following statement about the events on the same day, the day after the assassination.
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
before ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared James Earl Jarman, Jr., c/m 33, 3942 Atlanta Street, Dallas, Texas HA8-1837 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
I work for the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, as a Checker on the first floor for Mr. Roy S. Truly. On Friday, November 22, 1963, I got to work at 8:05 a.m. The first time I saw Lee Oswald on Friday, November 22, 1963 was about 8:15 a.m. He was filling orders on the first floor. A little after 9:00 a.m. Lee Oswald asked me what all the people were doing standing on the street. I told him that the President was supposed to come this way sometime this morning. He asked me, "Which way do you think he is coming?". I told him that the President would probably come down Main Street and turn on Houston and then go down Elm Street. He said, "Yes, I see". I only talked with him for about three or four minutes. The last time I saw Lee Oswald on Friday, November 22, 1963 was between 11:30 a.m. and 12:00 noon when he was taking the elevator upstairs to go get some boxes. At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray (last name not known) and a Spanish boy (his name I cannot remember). To my knowledge Lee Oswald was not with us while we were watching the parade.
/s/ James Earl Jarman, Jr.
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN before ME THIS 23rd DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Patsy Collins
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

As Jarman was an order checker and not part of the floor laying crew his normal work location was the first floor. He provided a time for the workers departure of approximately 11.45 and an observation that Oswald ascended sometime after 11.30am. This is consistent with Oswald being observed near the east elevator the 5th floor during the "elevator race" descent. There are no details about anything after the shots, the sole focus of this statement is on the prime suspect Oswald and the workers on the 6th floor. He places Williams out the front of the building with the rest. Jarman offered no details about how many shots or his proximity to them.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 03:29:31 PM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #172 on: September 16, 2018, 03:27:40 PM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #173 on: September 16, 2018, 03:30:03 PM »
Essentially we have 3 possibilities.

Option 1.
Williams saw no one and just happened to vacate the 6th floor independently. He left his lunch remnants and now on day one he decides to say nothing about his return to the sixth floor, but says he went with Jarman and Norman.

Option 2.
Williams saw Oswald before he left. He says nothing about this to the DPD even though Oswald has been arrested and is the prime suspect. Williams is questioned about Oswald and the sixth floor.

Option 3. Williams sees someone other than Oswald but says nothing.

For options 2 and 3 Williams vacates the 6th floor but does not feel threatened at the time.

By the next day, someone/thing has persuaded him to inform the FBI that he visited the 6th floor for a just a few minutes around noon before joining Norman and Jarman.

Yeah, most likey he realized that his attempt to distance himself from the 6th floor was an act of stupidity and doomed to failure.

Still not buying that BRW asked the Stooges to lie for him or that they would agree to do so.

Simply doesn't make sense that a Stooge Conspiracy was hatched in the 2 - 3 minutes before they went downstairs or anytime before they gave their statements on 11/22/63.

I laughingly predicted earlier in this thread that eventually the implication that BRW saw Jack Dougherty on the 6th floor preparing for the assassination would be made - and sure enough Fratini has made my prediction a reality.

Pfffffft.

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #174 on: September 16, 2018, 03:33:31 PM »
Howard it might come as a surprise to you but I am reconsidering the theory after reviewing the statements. Tony did not imply anything about Dougherty being the assassin. Did you see my post where I stated that I think Dougherty came up after BRW left?

This is a complex topic, maybe too much for you to comprehend.

PS only BRW gave a statement on 11/22. See above.....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 03:56:29 PM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #174 on: September 16, 2018, 03:33:31 PM »


Offline Howard Gee

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #175 on: September 16, 2018, 03:51:10 PM »

This is a complex topic, maybe to much for you to comprehend.


Yeah, that's because I'm just not as smart as you are.

Save the condescending remarks for someone else, bright boy.

BTW, that should be 'too' much.

Have a nice day. 

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #176 on: September 16, 2018, 03:55:23 PM »
Yeah, that's because I'm just not as smart as you are.


At last we agree on something.

PS thanks for the tip on the typo.....you might have a career there.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #176 on: September 16, 2018, 03:55:23 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #177 on: September 16, 2018, 05:57:35 PM »
Howard it might come as a surprise to you but I am reconsidering the theory after reviewing the statements. Tony did not imply anything about Dougherty being the assassin. Did you see my post where I stated that I think Dougherty came up after BRW left?

This is a complex topic, maybe too much for you to comprehend.

PS only BRW gave a statement on 11/22. See above.....

'This is a complex topic, maybe too much for you to comprehend''
>>> By making everything evermore big and complex, you lot are 'moving in the wrong direction', as Einstein put it.

KISS

Keep It Simple Sherlock.

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #178 on: September 16, 2018, 07:17:27 PM »
..just came across this.....
Didn't Victoria Adams and her friend Sandra Styles testify that they entered the stairwell on the 4th floor approximately 20 seconds after the third shot?
The Warren Commission jackals completely ignored their statements. Why?
Because Oswald must have seemingly turned into the invisible man and went right by them.
Those other guys?...Who cared that their stories were all contradictory? The cops had their man!

 
 

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #178 on: September 16, 2018, 07:17:27 PM »


Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #179 on: September 16, 2018, 07:55:22 PM »
Didn't Victoria Adams and her friend Sandra Styles testify that they entered the stairwell on the 4th floor approximately 20 seconds after the third shot?
The Warren Commission jackals completely ignored their statements. Why?
Because Oswald must have seemingly turned into the invisible man and went right by them.
Those other guys?...Who cared that their stories were all contradictory? The cops had their man!


As I understand it the trouble with their timings is that Adams said when they got to the first floor they met Shelley and Lovelady, but they had been watching from the steps of the TSBD then gone up to the tracks behind it before going to the bottom of the stairs. This was several minutes later, and they said they saw Truly (and an officer)going into the building whilst they were outside.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #179 on: September 16, 2018, 07:55:22 PM »