Conspiracy of the Three Stooges

[Colin Crow]

Is this a reasonable summary of your position?

Williams saw Oswald in the SN about 5 minutes before the shots and decided leave and investigate downstairs to see if any co-workers were there.

At some point, presumably before Jarman makes his affidavit the next day,  the three decide to protect BRW from association with the 6th floor and agree to say that they all took the elevator together to the 5th to watch the motorcade.

Williams it taken with Shelley and Arce to DPD to give an affidavit following Fritz telling Senkel to round up all those on the 6th floor that day. This occurred around 1.30pm, around the time the rifle was discovered.

Oswald is arrested and arrives at DPD and is specifically referred to in Williams affidavit. Ie. Williams knows Oswald is the prime suspect at the time his affidavit is taken.

[Colin Crow]

Thanks Tony,

Here is his first day statement.





I wonder why he mentions Givens. I can understand the DPD interest about Givens but how would BRW know that he could not get back into the building?

[John Mytton]

From BRW's first day affidavit - he mentions Givens and Oswald and avoids all mention of ever being on the 6th floor and stated that he went to the fifth floor with Norman and Jarman (Hank and Junior).

He mentions seeing officers come up.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340456/?q=Bonnie%20ray%20Williams%20

The very next day Williams talks to the FBI and tells them that he was on the 6th floor.

Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes.

JohnM

[Colin Crow]

The very next day Williams talks to the FBI and tells them that he was on the 6th floor.

Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes.

JohnM

Some changes from the day before are apparent. Williams now contradicted his statement given just the day before to the DPD.  There is a time shift to 11.30am for the descent in the elevator, effectively distancing himself by 20 minutes from the events that took place less than an hour later. However in time it would be clear from the evidence of the other members of the floor laying crew and foreman Bill Shelley  that the men did indeed break for lunch about 11.50am. In addition he now remembered he saw Oswald on the 5th floor, as the elevator went down.  Just the day before he doesn?t remember this sighting at all. Givens was operating the other freight elevator (east) and so BRW was on west elevator. Could Williams, in the west elevator really see Oswald standing east of the east elevator?

Significantly,  he now told of the lunch trip to the 6th floor. There are no details provided as to the contents of the lunch. He claimed he went back upstairs about 12 (if we apply a 20 minute time shift correction this actually occurred at 12.10pm). His stay on the 6th floor only lasts three minutes, obviously not enough time to finish lunch!  If we add the time shift it becomes arrives on the 6th floor at 12.10, walks to a position to watch the motorcade and is gone by 12.13pm. Is he trying to avoid being anywhere on the 6th Floor from 12.15 onwards?

Williams claimed to have seen no one and goes down the stairs to the 5th floor and now meets up with Jarman and Norman. They took up a position at the southern windows at " approximately the middle of the building" to watch the motorcade. He heard 2 shots coming from above.

Since his first day affidavit he likely is made aware that the assassin's chicken lunch was discovered on the 6th floor. Also he may have anticipated someone witnessing him or even photographing him on the 6th floor.

Meanwhile Jarman has suck to the original plan.

[John Mytton]

Note the "you stayed only 3 minutes" and "used the stairs" which he then denied stating.

When he gave his first day statement he didn't mention the 6th floor and by the second day he had no idea what Norman and Jarman told the DP. BRW may have been aware of the news reports of the "assassin" having eaten his chicken lunch on the 6th floor.

Or if he was seen from the outside on the 6th floor.

Note the "you stayed only 3 minutes" and "used the stairs" which he then denied stating.

That's why I posted the full interaction, the reason I believe for the 3 minutes if he did actually say it, is that at first Williams was doing his damndest to distance himself from being there at 12:30.

When he gave his first day statement he didn't mention the 6th floor and by the second day he had no idea what Norman and Jarman told the DP.

Maybe he didn't mention the 6th floor because he figured he had no reason to.

BRW may have been aware of the news reports of the "assassin" having eaten his chicken lunch on the 6th floor.

And...?

JohnM

[Colin Crow]

That's why I posted the full interaction, the reason I believe for the 3 minutes if he did actually say it, is that at first Williams was doing his damndest to distance himself from being there at 12:30.

Agree.....see my earlier post.

Maybe he didn't mention the 6th floor because he figured he had no reason to.



JohnM

No reason to after he told of shots from above and knew the guy you think he saw a few minutes before was the prime suspect......really?

[John Mytton]

Some changes from the day before are apparent. Williams now contradicted his statement given just the day before to the DPD.  There is a time shift to 11.30am for the descent in the elevator, effectively distancing himself by 20 minutes from the events that took place less than an hour later. However in time it would be clear from the evidence of the other members of the floor laying crew and foreman Bill Shelley  that the men did indeed break for lunch about 11.50am. In addition he now remembered he saw Oswald on the 5th floor, as the elevator went down.  Just the day before he doesn?t remember this sighting at all. Givens was operating the other freight elevator (east) and so BRW was on west elevator. Could Williams, in the west elevator really see Oswald standing east of the east elevator?

Significantly,  he now told of the lunch trip to the 6th floor. There are no details provided as to the contents of the lunch. He claimed he went back upstairs about 12 (if we apply a 20 minute time shift correction this actually occurred at 12.10pm). His stay on the 6th floor only lasts three minutes, obviously not enough time to finish lunch!  If we add the time shift it becomes arrives on the 6th floor at 12.10, walks to a position to watch the motorcade and is gone by 12.13pm. Is he trying to avoid being anywhere on the 6th Floor from 12.15 onwards?

Williams claimed to have seen no one and goes down the stairs to the 5th floor and now meets up with Jarman and Norman. They took up a position at the southern windows at " approximately the middle of the building" to watch the motorcade. He heard 2 shots coming from above.

Since his first day affidavit he likely is made aware that the assassin's chicken lunch was discovered on the 6th floor. Also he may have anticipated someone witnessing him or even photographing him on the 6th floor.

Meanwhile Jarman has suck to the original plan.

Williams now contradicted his statement given just the day before to the DPD.

Why is everything so black and white to you?

It's the next day and if as you suggest they already have co-ordinated their stories why would Williams just stuff it all up and jeopardize not only himself but his mates as well?

I feel you're reading too much into how you interpret their words and it's largely what I said at the start, as time went on they were just encouraged to recall more details.

JohnM