JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
LNers: Your Views of the Missed Shot?
Steve Taylor:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on September 10, 2018, 05:29:29 PM ---
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193 is a clear frame of JFK waving, then blurring starts so I put the range from 194-206. To narrow it down, I feel 200-206 were closer to the event and coincide with the Willis photo.
Steve Taylor:
--- Quote from: Mitch Todd on September 10, 2018, 05:22:36 AM ---1.) Who said there were three shots? What if there were only two?
2.) The problems with a shallow back wound: a) Ruby shot Oswald with a snub-nose .38 special revolver. It's not a particularly penetrating projectile. Still, the bullet went from one side of Oswald to the other. A rifle bullet at any normal velocity would go at least as far. b)According to the Edgewood tests, the 6.5 Carcano bullets they tested only lost 400fps travelling completely through a simulated human neck made of meat covered with goatskin. Other experiments had determine that it takes a rifle-caliber steel ball about 150fps just to penetrate the skin. So a bullet that only burrows in an inch or so to the body is going to impact JFK travelling on the order of 200-400ft/sec. At 200ft/sec a bullet fired from 200ft away has a 1 second flight time, and will drop 1/2*(32.2ft/s/s)*1s = 16 feet. A bullet travelling at 400ft/sec will fly for 0.5sec and similarly drop 4 feet. So, to hit JFK with suck a pokey projectile, the shooter would have to be aiming for a point several feet above JFK's head, which doesn't make sense. c.) If the bullet was stopped by the spine, it would have caused severe damage to the vertebra.
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Your later solution to 1. above seems reasonable.
Regarding 2. above, thank you for the understandable examples. However, since we are working in round numbers let me modify your example. At 400ft/sec, a round will drop 2 ft in a 100 feet distance. Additionally, if it is flying at a 45 degree angle to the horizon, it should only drop 1 foot. This is the difference between a head and back shot. Do you agree?
Mitch Todd:
--- Quote from: Steve Taylor on September 11, 2018, 03:52:07 AM ---Your later solution to 1. above seems reasonable.
Regarding 2. above, thank you for the understandable examples. However, since we are working in round numbers let me modify your example. At 400ft/sec, a round will drop 2 ft in a 100 feet distance. Additionally, if it is flying at a 45 degree angle to the horizon, it should only drop 1 foot. This is the difference between a head and back shot. Do you agree?
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At 400fps, a bullet will traverse a 100' range in 1/4 second. It will drop 1/2 * 32 * (1/4)^2 or 1'. The acceleration due to gravity is independent the direction it's fired. At 400fps, It's still going to drop 1' from the point of aim after 100'. Or are you meaning that the 100' is 45 degrees from horizontal, too? And where behind JFK is there a possible shooter location 100' from jfk @45degrees?
Mitch Todd:
--- Quote from: John Iacoletti on September 10, 2018, 09:51:14 PM ---That was the story. But Dr. Robert Livingston said he called Humes prior to the autopsy and told him about the throat wound.
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Robert Livingston also said that he called Humes at Bethesda between 3:30 and 4:00 that afternoon. Humes' has said that he didn't go to Bethesda until after he was called by Adm. Kenney at about 5:15. The first public mention that JFK's body was headed to the Naval hospital was at 5PM. He also remembered hearing statements from Dr Crenshaw on the radio that afternoon.
David Lifton pinged a number of inconsistencies in Livingston's various statements if you want to hunt it all down.
Mitch Todd:
--- Quote from: John Iacoletti on September 10, 2018, 10:05:37 PM ---So really what you mean is that it's physically impossible for a normal 6.5 bullet fired from a Mannlicher Carcano rifle from the SE corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD and directly hitting JFK's back to have created a "shallow back wound".
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Not physically impossible, per se. It is possible someone could have been aiming a few feet over JFK's head when the bullet just happened to be a dud. Or maybe Oswald really was even worse of a shot than the CT's want us to believe, and the Carcano ammo is even worse than Ollie Stone would suppose. I don't think you'd hold out too much hope for a scenario like those. It would be foolish to do so. This holds true for any firearm that could reasonably considered a possible murder weapon, not just a Carcano. Gravity tries to kill us at the same rate, no matter who we are, after all.
The SW corner of the TSBD is still 150' from the car, so the gravitational drop for a slow bullet would still be on the order of feet below the aim point. And the Dal-Tex building is even farther from the car than the SE corner of the TSBD. Unless you want to go Bonar Mennenger one better and have Hickey shoot JFK twice, the drop problem exists for any plausible back wound shooter location
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