Roger Craig

[Dan O'meara]

I think the rifle was found in an upright position

I'm absolutely sure that it was lying on it's side...   And I suggest that you watch a good copy of Alyea's film and notice that Lt Day reaches out and grasps the leather sling on the rifle.  If the rifle had been upright the leather sling would have been on the far ( north) side of the rifle and Lt Day could not have reached it so easily.

I've done this Gif from the Alyea film showing the moment Day picks up the rifle. Two things need to be noted:

1) When it cuts to Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle. There is no telling how long he was down there
    before it cuts to him.
2) At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

Conclusion - the Alyea clip cannot be used to support the idea the rifle was lying on its side. As soon as Day grabs the strap the rifle flips into a "lying down" position (I'm sure there's a better way to phrase it)

[Walt Cakebread]

I've done this Gif from the Alyea film showing the moment Day picks up the rifle. Two things need to be noted:

1) When it cuts to Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle. There is no telling how long he was down there
    before it cuts to him.
2) At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

Conclusion - the Alyea clip cannot be used to support the idea the rifle was lying on its side. As soon as Day grabs the strap the rifle flips into a "lying down" position (I'm sure there's a better way to phrase it)

At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

No, that's not correct.... The rifle's metal butt plate is clearly visible.   Dan, can you do a freeze frame at the beginning of the film?

Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle.

Yes, that's true....But,  I don't believe he has touched the rifle at the very beginning of the film.

Dan, I don't believe I've ever seen a better copy of Alyea's film....  That metal butt plate on the rifle is very obviously HORIZONTAL.... Look under Lt Day's left elbow just as he starts to lift the rifle.

[Walt Cakebread]

I've done this Gif from the Alyea film showing the moment Day picks up the rifle. Two things need to be noted:

1) When it cuts to Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle. There is no telling how long he was down there
    before it cuts to him.
2) At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

Conclusion - the Alyea clip cannot be used to support the idea the rifle was lying on its side. As soon as Day grabs the strap the rifle flips into a "lying down" position (I'm sure there's a better way to phrase it)

Wow!!... Great Copy of Alyea's film,  Dan....   I don't wish to insult you but maybe you don't know what you're seeing....I can see the metal butt plate in the horizontal position just prior to Lt Lifting the rifle by the leather sling.

[Walt Cakebread]

LOL. You don't need to be a photographer. You just actually need to own a MC and lay it down on the floor among some boxes and hold a flashlight in your right hand until the shadows look like the photo and take a pic with your phone in the other hand. Shirley, you have a camera in your phone? Or are you still using your dial phone? Why aren't you excited to do it? Don't you want to be the hero who solves the case?

No evidence? Don't you think the photo shows the stock of a Mauser? And why the hell would Fritz show Weitzman a Mauser if he didn't need to? Snap out of it. The Mauser was there for someone to take some token shots at JFK from the 6th floor, probably from a window at the southwest corner. There had to be shots coming from the TSBD to frame Oswald, otherwise, how the hell were they going to justify storming the TSBD looking for the killer? The killer certainly wasn't going to use the MC to take the shots since it was already carefully planted in the box hole. I think Dan O'meara is correct that the rag next to the rifle is supposed to imply that Oswald used it to wipe off ALL his prints from the rifle before ditching it. I guess he must have also used the rag to wipe his prints from the boxes as well, before racing down the stairs and into the lunch room. So how long did it take Oswald to do all that?

Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles both verified that Oswald was not in the building’s only stairwell during the crucial ninety seconds between the last shot and when Patrolman Marrion Baker confronted Oswald on the second floor on his way upstairs to find the shooter. Oswald not only had to wipe off all the prints from the rifle and boxes before ditching it, he had to get down the 72 steps of the 8 flights of stairs from the far corner of the 6th floor in under 90 seconds from the opposite corner of the building from the stairs.

Here is another reenactment for you Walt. See how long it takes you to wipe off your prints from a heavily handled rifle that had supposedly been disassembled then reassembled before being shot 3 times and killing the POTUS, using a wonky scope no less. I'll bet it takes you longer than 90 seconds. Let us know.

Jack, Have you seen Dan's latest post?    He's posted the best copy of the Alyea film that I've ever seen....Take a look and offer your observation about the orientation of the rifle's metal butt plate ( just beyond Day's left elbow)

[Jack Trojan]

I've done this Gif from the Alyea film showing the moment Day picks up the rifle. Two things need to be noted:

1) When it cuts to Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle. There is no telling how long he was down there
    before it cuts to him.
2) At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

Conclusion - the Alyea clip cannot be used to support the idea the rifle was lying on its side. As soon as Day grabs the strap the rifle flips into a "lying down" position (I'm sure there's a better way to phrase it)

The rifle was already laying down when Day grabbed the strap. He actually grabbed the strap after he rotated the rifle towards him with his right hand (probably by the scope) before grabbing the strap with his left hand. He was pretending to be mindful of prints.

Had he grabbed the strap and flipped the rifle on its side then the stock would not rotate toward him as he lifted it up. The bottom of the rifle would come up 1st and the rifle would be upside down from the get go. Besides, I doubt Day would pick the rifle up by the strap and flip the rifle on its side. He may have laid the rifle on its side before picking it up, for some inexplicable reason, but his general handling of the evidence is damning. Everyone there was handling the evidence bare handed and made some token gestures about "protecting" potential prints.

Here is a shorter version of your GIF showing just the pick up. Day definitely grabbed the rifle somewhere with his bare right hand, rotated it towards him, then slid his hand under the rifle and grabbed the strap as he picked it up. Otherwise, the rifle would not have rotated towards him if he had picked it up by the strap.

MC pick up

But the elephant in the room is where is the strap in the still photos? Did Oswald take the time to hide the strap from view behind the rifle during his 90 second jaunt to the lunchroom?

[Jack Trojan]

The Alyea footage does seem staged. Day would have had to move the boxes to get at the rifle, which Alyea never captured. It's as if Day waited for his cue to pick up the rifle. The rifle must have flipped over as they moved the boxes, which demonstrates more reckless handling of the evidence. Those guys were the Keystone Cops of the coup.

It must have been nice for the DPD not to actually have to apply any forensics to the evidence. They only needed to pretend to solve the case in record time. That's why they had a total disregard for the evidence. They should have at least pretended a little harder than they did. They were staging photos of the crime scene (Fritz staged the photo of the hulls in the SN), planting evidence, mishandling evidence, sheep-dipping Oswald, delivering Oswald to Ruby. The screw up with the Mauser was par for the course.

[Dan O'meara]

At the very beginning of the clip the rifle is out of sight so we can't tell what's happening down there.

No, that's not correct.... The rifle's metal butt plate is clearly visible.   Dan, can you do a freeze frame at the beginning of the film?

Day he is already crouching down with his hands on or near the rifle.

Yes, that's true....But,  I don't believe he has touched the rifle at the very beginning of the film.

Dan, I don't believe I've ever seen a better copy of Alyea's film....  That metal butt plate on the rifle is very obviously HORIZONTAL.... Look under Lt Day's left elbow just as he starts to lift the rifle.

This Gif shows the first few frames from the moment Day appears on the Alyea film slowed down.
His hands are down where the rifle is.
The rifle is out of view.
The Alyea film does not tell us the rifle was lying down when Day picked it up.
I believe, after moving some boxes about, Day reached over the rifle and grabbed the strap.
The second he pulled the strap the rifle flipped to the horizontal position.
To a certain extent I imagine the scene has been staged but only in terms of telling Alyea to come and film the moment the rifle is picked up - 3..2..1..Action!




The photos are real.
The rifle is found in an upright position.
Somehow the clip is still inside.
Alyea films the moment the rifle is picked up.