Was the Stemmons Freeway sign removed?

[Mitch Todd]

Well, OK. I'm confused alright. You at least seem to be contenting that the rate-of-speed in the Daniel film is a constant as to how the detached motorcade made it's way from that point. Though that point seems a bit buried in some posts.

You're not the only one. He keeps saying the limo stopped, and the from the context of what he's saying it sounds like he thinks the limo stopped west of the overpass. So, if that's not where he said the stop occurred, then where was it supposed to have happened?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

The Stop-and-Go Motorcade by Gary Mack (Excerpts)
     (Continuing Inquiry, April 22, 1980)

When retired Dallas Police Officer Earle V. Brown told me the motorcade
stopped on the Stemmons Freeway access ramp (see March 1980 TCI),
my first thought was verification.

I called Brown again to ask if he was absolutely certain about what he saw.

He said he'd been thinking about it for the past week and there was no doubt -
the motorcade, with the Kennedy limousine in front, came to a halt for some
30 seconds. Brown didn't remember any specifics - there may have been one
or two motorcycles, he couldn't recall anyone getting out of a car, one of the
men had what appeared to be a big automatic rifle.

When told of Officer Brown's account, Curry denied they stopped, but revised
his speed estimate to "pretty slow, maybe two to three miles an hour." Before
I could ask him to think about it more carefully, Curry unexpectedly volunteered
"You know, they didn't even know where the hospital was."

I'm convinced the motorcade made a dramatic slowdown on the Stemmons
Freeway entrance ramp and it probably stopped

Kellermann related this in his first day report:

"I yelled at William Greer (the driver) to "Step on it, we're hit!" and grabbed the mike from the car radio, called to SA Lawson in the police lead car that we were hit and to get us to a hospital.

With SA Lawson riding in the police car they quickly formed the accompanying escort for the motorcade around our limousines and sped us through the streets to the emergency entrance of Parkland Memorial Hospital."

Greer doesn't mention slowing down or any escort. But it there was one then the cars had to slow down somewhat in order to lineup any escort. If the limo raced ahead - but then some sort of escort was formed around it - it had to slow down, wouldn't it?

And Greer didn't know where the hospital was. He would need to be led to it.

[Mitch Todd]

The Stop-and-Go Motorcade by Gary Mack (Excerpts)
     (Continuing Inquiry, April 22, 1980)

When retired Dallas Police Officer Earle V. Brown told me the motorcade
stopped on the Stemmons Freeway access ramp (see March 1980 TCI),
my first thought was verification.

I called Brown again to ask if he was absolutely certain about what he saw.

He said he'd been thinking about it for the past week and there was no doubt -
the motorcade, with the Kennedy limousine in front, came to a halt for some
30 seconds. Brown didn't remember any specifics - there may have been one
or two motorcycles, he couldn't recall anyone getting out of a car, one of the
men had what appeared to be a big automatic rifle.

When told of Officer Brown's account, Curry denied they stopped, but revised
his speed estimate to "pretty slow, maybe two to three miles an hour." Before
I could ask him to think about it more carefully, Curry unexpectedly volunteered
"You know, they didn't even know where the hospital was."

I'm convinced the motorcade made a dramatic slowdown on the Stemmons
Freeway entrance ramp and it probably stopped

South end of access ramp (labelled Stemmons)

Overall view with ramp ascent slightly left of center (entry point to ramp at lower center)

Rough map showing freeway ramp on left

You're Greer and Kellerman. You've just been shot at, but you don't know from where or by whom. You know that someone in the car has been critically wounded. Would you stop? I can see them slowing down, especially in order to navigate the turn on the on-ramp, but I can't see them stopping. It's worth remembering that Brown
also told the WC that he thought the limo stopped on Elm.

[Royell Storing]

You're Greer and Kellerman. You've just been shot at, but you don't know from where or by whom. You know that someone in the car has been critically wounded. Would you stop? I can see them slowing down, especially in order to navigate the turn on the on-ramp, but I can't see them stopping. It's worth remembering that Brown
also told the WC that he thought the limo stopped on Elm.

     Knowing for a Fact that the SS had an AR-15 locked and loaded on the floorboard of the Queen Mary, do you really believe, (1) Should the POTUS come under fire that his only protection inside the JFK Limo would be the Service Revolvers of SA Greer and ASAIC Kellerman?, (2) Should the POTUS come under fire & the Limo and the Queen Mary become separated that the Only weapons available to return fire and protect the POTUS would be the service revolvers of SA Greer & ASAIC Kellerman? and (3) Should the POTUS come under fire that there would Not be a SS Protocol for the SS Agents in the motorcade to adhere to?  It is a common military practice when under surprise enemy attack/fire that when possible to Regroup and Reaccess your current position and possible options going forward. ALL of this would require a brief STOP. This is what unfolded West of the Triple Underpass BEFORE the Limo boarded the actual Stemmons Fwy.

[Mitch Todd]

They didn't know how to get to the hospital. Better to wait 30-seconds (lead car catches up, the driver (or Kellerman) tells Curry he needs an escort to the hospital and Curry gets in the lead) than potentially spending two-or-three minutes driving around not knowing where to go. The lead car and motorcycles will also better open up traffic should any be encountered.

Brown mistook a "stop" on Elm for the brief slowing down captured on Zapruder and Nix.

The Secret Service had their own radios in both the limo and and in Lawson's lap in the lead car. As Kellerman wrote in his report, "I yelled at William Greer (the driver) to 'Step on it, we're hit!' and grabbed the mike from the car radio, called to SA Lawson in the police lead car that we were hit and to get us to a hospital." Lawson's report confirms Kellerman's: "I heard a report over the two-way radio that we should proceed to the nearest hospital." All that would need to happen after that was for the lead car to live up to it's name and lead them to Parkland. Given that ss100x had passed the lead car by the time it left Elm, they would have had to have slowed down to allow the the lead car to resume it's proper position, but it wouldn't require stopping. The limo wasn't that far ahead, and it definitely wasn't 30 seconds ahead.

[Mitch Todd]

     Knowing for a Fact that the SS had an AR-15 locked and loaded on the floorboard of the Queen Mary, do you really believe, (1) Should the POTUS come under fire that his only protection inside the JFK Limo would be the Service Revolvers of SA Greer and ASAIC Kellerman?, (2) Should the POTUS come under fire & the Limo and the Queen Mary become separated that the Only weapons available to return fire and protect the POTUS would be the service revolvers of SA Greer & ASAIC Kellerman? and (3) Should the POTUS come under fire that there would Not be a SS Protocol for the SS Agents in the motorcade to adhere to?  It is a common military practice when under surprise enemy attack/fire that when possible to Regroup and Reaccess your current position and possible options going forward. ALL of this would require a brief STOP. This is what unfolded West of the Triple Underpass BEFORE the Limo boarded the actual Stemmons Fwy.

This was a protective detail, not an infantry platoon. And they had enough agents in place in the limo to figure out what was going on even with someone driving, and radios to keep them in touch with other key players in the motorcade. For that matter, the blood, CSF, and brain matter that pelted Greer, Kellerman, and the windshield would have been an obvious indicator that someone was badly hurt, even without Hill in the back to advise. For reference, once Ronald Reagan was in the limo after Hinckley shot him, the limo didn't stop until it reached the hospital, even though the agents covering RR didn't at first realize he'd been shot, and diverted from the original destination (the White House) to GWU hospital.

[Royell Storing]

This was a protective detail, not an infantry platoon. And they had enough agents in place in the limo to figure out what was going on even with someone driving, and radios to keep them in touch with other key players in the motorcade. For that matter, the blood, CSF, and brain matter that pelted Greer, Kellerman, and the windshield would have been an obvious indicator that someone was badly hurt, even without Hill in the back to advise. For reference, once Ronald Reagan was in the limo after Hinckley shot him, the limo didn't stop until it reached the hospital, even though the agents covering RR didn't at first realize he'd been shot, and diverted from the original destination (the White House) to GWU hospital.

      If you are going to define SA Greer and ASAIC Kellerman as a "protective detail", and Greer was pre-occupied with actually driving the Limo, then it would be Ludicrous to believe that All the SS had in place to protect the POTUS was Roy Kellerman's side arm.