JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Could CE-399 have remained inact?
John Iacoletti:
--- Quote from: Dillon Rankine on August 13, 2018, 12:20:12 AM ---Had the bullet which hit JBC struck nose first, it would leave a rounded wound which would measure less than 1 cm in diameter. The mere fact the wound was elliptical and abromally large demonstrates that it likely caused by a tumbling or yawing missile
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An oblong wound also could be caused by a non-tumbling bullet entering at an angle.
Bill Brown:
--- Quote from: Dillon Rankine on August 13, 2018, 12:20:12 AM ---LNers: could CE-399 have remained inact?
The evidence that suggests Connally?s entrance wound caused by a yawing or tumbling missile is the operational record of the Governor?s wounds which recorded that the inshoot in Connally?s back wound which disclose it as being a 3 cm ellipsoid puncture wound. (WCR, pp. 531-2) However, it has been dutifully noted that this more closely describes the extended and debrided wound, and that the original size was 1.5 cm. (4H104) Dr. Michael Baden on behalf of the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel personally reexamined the wound and concluded it was 2.8 cm. (7 HSCA 240)
Had the bullet which hit JBC struck nose first, it would leave a rounded wound which would measure less than 1 cm in diameter. The mere fact the wound was elliptical and abromally large demonstrates that it likely caused by a tumbling or yawing missile?a phenomanon which occurs after a bullet has previously perforated another object, such as Kennedy?s torso. (DiMaio, 1993, Gunshot Wounds, p. 46) Dr. Lattimer once again provided empirical corroboration using his aforementioned experiment, in which he noted every bullet which struck the JFK target tumbled before striking the JBC target. (Lattimer, 1980, Kennedy and Lincoln, p. 206)
Many critics have raised questions about the feasibility of a Carcano bullet emerging undamaged from an encounter with the radius bone, however there exists the same problem with the rib. Ballistics expert, Larry Strudivan, explained then velocities at which we can expect bullets to deform,
(1 HSCA 369)
According to Sturdivan?s values a bullet traveling sideways and striking bone would deform at or above 1000 ft/sec. Ballistic tests conducted at Edgewood Army Arsenal at the behest of Dr. Alfred Olivier found that the exit velocity of a bullet from JFK?s neck would have been approximately 1798 ft/sec. (5H77-78)
CE-399 not only lacks obvious visual deformity (save being notably ?squeezed? when viewed from the base), the surface striations which helps link it to Oswald?s Carcano remained not effaced. (3H430)
If the bullet strike side on approximating 1800 ft/sec then by Studdivan?s values would have likely snapped into two pieces, as the centripetal force applied to the nose and tail of the bullet would have caused the centre to break.
Dr. Gregory, JBC?s surgeon, stated that he felt that the fragmented bullet found in the front seat of the limousine, ballistically matched to Oswald?s rifle was a in a condition more consistent with JBC?s injuries than CE-399. (4H122-4)
So I ask the LNers: how do you respond to this information?
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Dillon, the million dollar question is at what speed was the bullet traveling when it finally made contact with Connally's rib.
Just because the bullet was traveling at approximately 1,800 feet per second when it struck Connally in the back does not mean it was traveling at a speed of over 1,000 feet per second when it struck Connally's rib, i.e. bullet slowed after striking the back to a speed of less than 1,000 feet per second before striking the rib. That speed, less than 1,000 feet per second, would most likely not be a high enough velocity for the bullet to be damaged considerably when first making contact with bone (Connally's rib).
Dillon Rankine:
--- Quote from: Bill Brown on August 14, 2018, 06:22:48 AM ---Dillon, the million dollar question is at what speed was the bullet traveling when it finally made contact with Connally's rib.
Just because the bullet was traveling at approximately 1,800 feet per second when it struck Connally in the back does not mean it was traveling at a speed of over 1,000 feet per second when it struck Connally's rib, i.e. bullet slowed after striking the back to a speed of less than 1,000 feet per second before striking the rib. That speed, less than 1,000 feet per second, would most likely not be a high enough velocity for the bullet to be damaged considerably when first making contact with bone (Connally's rib).
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Is muzzle velocity is 2165 ft/sec (approx.) meaning travelling the distance to JFK?s back and piercing his torso chopped off less than 400 ft/sec and you propose that between entering the back and hitting the rub it somehow lost at least 800 ft/sec. Umm? no. Just no. :D
Bill Brown:
--- Quote from: Dillon Rankine on August 14, 2018, 06:30:04 AM ---Is muzzle velocity is 2165 ft/sec (approx.) meaning travelling the distance to JFK?s back and piercing his torso chopped off less than 400 ft/sec and you propose that between entering the back and hitting the rub it somehow lost at least 800 ft/sec. Umm? no. Just no. :D
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--- Quote ---no. Just no.
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I'm going to need a little bit more than this before I abandon what I proposed as a possibility.
A bullet in mid-tumble could slow at a more elevated rate (because it is tumbling, of course) than the bullet would slow (not tumbling at all) when it struck the President in the back.
You're in error to compare the two scenarios as you did above. Apples and oranges.
Dillon Rankine:
--- Quote from: Bill Brown on August 14, 2018, 07:00:46 AM ---
I'm going to need a little bit more than this before I abandon what I proposed as a possibility.
A bullet in mid-tumble could slow at a more elevated rate (because it is tumbling, of course) than the bullet would slow (not tumbling at all) when it struck the President in the back.
You're in error to compare the two scenarios as you did above. Apples and oranges.
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Air and and a man?s torso slowed the bullet by less than 400 ft/sec. The distance between the inshoot in JBC?s back and the point of injury to his rib was about 14 cm (which Sturdivan once said would only take 100 ft/sec off the velocity, a figure he later disregarded as a ?rough estimate? despite swearing on it). In order to accept your view, you have to believe the bullet lost lost about 60 ft/sec of velocity every 1 cm. While I don?t doubt that yawing could increase velocity loss, it completely absurd to hold this view. The round might not even have had which velocity to damage the wrist or enter the thigh afterwards, given both the rib the wrist would drastically reduce the velocity of your bullet now travelling less than 1000 ft/sec before hitting the rib.
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