Poll

How does LHO’s lack of clear motive affect your perception of his guilt?

I am less convinced he was the assassin / more convinced he was not the assassin
I am more convinced he was the assassin
I am convinced he must have been part of a plot
Other (please specify below)
No impact

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Author Topic: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?  (Read 3270 times)

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2018, 03:32:49 AM »
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You never met Oswald. You appear to be presenting a medical diagnosis of him.
Dr. Hartogs met him and evaluated him. Dr. Hartogs had his own demons. : Supporting You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What are your readers to infer in reaction to your inflexibility and insistence?

Why are your conclusions contradicting the informed opinions of Evelyn Siegel, who offered a first person account?
To what degree are you predisposed to conclude what you are offering here? Was Ms. Siegel too openminded? How could
that be measured reliably enough to arrive at an answer as to her prejudices and how they affected her assessment of
Oswald?

 Thumb1: Thank you, Tom

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2018, 03:32:49 AM »


Online Dillon Rankine

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2018, 02:50:27 PM »
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Is it not also the case that Oswald had a brain predisposed to operating as a LN rather than as a team member in a conspiracy? I'd like your expert opinion.

The neuroscience that I’m aware of doesn’t indicate either way, though the PFC is a major player in social brain networks and LHO’s schizoid symptoms tend to point in the way of LN but he could have certainly been manipulated or a willing part of a conspiracy.     

Online Dillon Rankine

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2018, 03:33:35 PM »
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You never met Oswald. You appear to be presenting a medical diagnosis of him.
Dr. Hartogs met him and evaluated him. Dr. Hartogs had his own demons. : Supporting You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What are your readers to infer in reaction to your inflexibility and insistence?

If I were to tell you that someone had difficulty breathing, only a fool would criticise the conclusion that functional abnormalities in the lungs were to blame on the basis we had never met the patient. If likewise I said someone had been a smoker for decades of their life, what sort of berk would insist that actually lungs would have been fine and not predisposed one toward pulmonological disorders because we hadn’t met the person?

Yet when we migrate to the organ north of the neck, all the sudden we need to have the patient to determine ailments, even when the psychosocial equivalent of smoking (childhood adversity) had been impacting Oswald’s brain (in particular the prefrontal cortex) and manifesting in behavioural symptoms indicative of PFC disruption (pulling knifes, starting fights in the army, a suicide attempt). Same rules apply.

And for whatever reason when I’m criticised on these points, none of you have elected to take issue with the neurobiological data shown, and nobody read the papers with neuroimaging showing persons with backgrounds like Oswald’s, worse and better present with structural and functional changes accross the brain and corresponding psychological deficits detected in standard tasks. All I get is “you haven’t met him.” Please explain how Oswald brain survived his life unscathed and how all the behavioural consequences apparent are all just coincidences.             

Quote
Why are your conclusions contradicting the informed opinions of Evelyn Siegel, who offered a first person account?
To what degree are you predisposed to conclude what you are offering here? Was Ms. Siegel too openminded? How could
that be measured reliably enough to arrive at an answer as to her prejudices and how they affected her assessment of
Oswald?

First, Oswald’s IQ was 103. The average is 100, so it’s actually average. Secondly, social workers usually aren’t renowned for their knowledge of psychiatry (the opposite is almost always the case), but putting that aside, LHO’s symptoms had been noted by Hartogs’ (whose demons affect his diagnostic skills how exactly?) and related to PFC impairment. None of the neurobiology was known then and PD symptoms are more subtle than those of say full-blown ScZ, and the biological contribution to these diseases was then and is still know drastically underestimated by those now specialising in research (this can be seen in “emotionally frozen… never developed a trusting relationship with anybody”). 

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #103 on: August 12, 2018, 05:43:59 PM »
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The neuroscience that I’m aware of doesn’t indicate either way, though the PFC is a major player in social brain networks and LHO’s schizoid symptoms tend to point in the way of LN but he could have certainly been manipulated or a willing part of a conspiracy.   

"Lee has to be seen as an emotionally, quite disturbed youngster who suffers under the impact of really existing emotional isolation and deprivation, lack of affection, absence of family life and rejection by a selfinvolved and conflicted mother. Although Lee denies that he is in need of any other form of help other than "remedial" one, we gained the definite impression that Lee can
be reached through contact with an understanding and very patient

psychotherapist and if he could be drawn at the same time into group
psychotherapy."
-from his Youth House evaluation

I agree that Oswald could have been coaxed into partaking in a conspiracy. An army buddy who was friends with him said that he would do what was he ordered to do, but only if he was treated with respect... asked rather than told.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:41:53 AM by Bill Chapman »

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2018, 03:29:21 AM »
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The Texas Theater was not eight blocks from Tenth and Patton.  When you have to exaggerate in an attempt to prove your point, then your point is no longer valid.

Your points are never valid. So you are saying that the WC lied to us?

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2018, 03:29:21 AM »


Online Rob Caprio

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2018, 03:31:12 AM »
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Using constricted language like ‘mentally unstable’ isn't going help. If by that you mean presenting with psychopathology then Hartogs did. However, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m using only actual jargon from the relevant fields and have examined the evidence about neural development.

1. Children who suffer any kind of abuse or neglect present universally with deficient prefrontal cortices and associated psychological deficits (impulse control, planning, logicality, cognitive control, etc)
         
2. Oswald did suffer neglect and some abuse in his childhood, and presented all throughout his life with behavioural issues associated with prefrontal dysfunction (dysexecutive symptoms).   

3. Oswald’s SPD is consistent with, and possibly partially caused by this brain-environment interaction. Moreover, SPD is typically one of 3 ways that increasing neurochemical imbalances manifest prior to becoming schizophrenia (which Lee might have ended up having, though this is quite doubtful).   

Why do I need it written down to reach this conclusion when it is plain for anyone with basic reasoning skills? What I’m saying is Oswald had a brain predisposed toward things like killing presidents and policemen.

Then prove it. That is what I asked you to do days ago.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2018, 08:03:59 AM »
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Your points are never valid. So you are saying that the WC lied to us?

Unrelated to you not having a clue what you're talking about.

Online Dillon Rankine

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2018, 08:48:57 AM »
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Then prove it. That is what I asked you to do days ago.

Can’t you read? It’s directly above the bold conclusion.

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2018, 08:48:57 AM »


Online Rob Caprio

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2018, 03:00:14 PM »
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Unrelated to you not having a clue what you're talking about.

Totally related. Once again you have shown that you are clueless about the evidence.  So, are you calling the WC liars?

Online Rob Caprio

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2018, 03:04:59 PM »
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Can’t you read? It’s directly above the bold conclusion.

The official evidence shows that LHO was NOT a violent person. If you disagree then I want your cite in a form of a quote saying differently. Stop posting tons of gobbledygook and get to the point.

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Re: How does LHO’s lack of motive affect your beliefs about his guilt?
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2018, 03:04:59 PM »