JFK Assassination Forum 
Logo
HomeThe Robin Unger JFK Assassination GalleryYoutube JFK Assassination Video ChannelSearchNotepadLoginRegister

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 24, 2017, 06:18:04 AM
News: Posts and threads containing swear words, personal insults or crudities, content considered by Admin to be spamming, when reported or observed, may be edited or deleted.
The perpetrator of any offense may receive a posting suspension of a period to be determined by Admin in relation to the considered severity of the offense.
Questions relating to deletions or edits will not be answered by Admin via any communication method here or elsewhere.

Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22
Zapruder - Throat Shot Stabilized Sequence By Martin Hinrichs  (Read 37925 times)

Super Member
*****

Posts: 4476


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi all! I'm new to this site but not to the topic. About this piece of film - in the split second before JFK and JC react or move, just as they appear from behind the sign, in front of the umbrella man they look to be reacting to something someone has said audible to them only on their side of the vehicle. Did the umbrella man say something derogatory to them or JFK? Just before they were shot?!

Hi Brendan. Welcome.

You are quite right to notice Kennedy looking at the Umbrella Man. "TUM" was there to protest Kennedy's re-election bid, reminding people that Joesph Kennedy once thought co-existence with Hitler was somehow better than a world war in which millions of people would die (not just mostly soldiers, but the vast majority this time would be civilians, as terror bombing over cities was the big deterrent at the time).

I guess the Umbrella Man (a Young Republican and Goldwaterite, I would guess) wanted world war. Those Young Republicans would get a good taste of war (and it wasn't even total war) in Vietnam, and by about 1970--when they were killing villagers-- it seems they had had enough. Hee hee, those Republicans War-Hawks fold pretty quickly, don't they--wouldn't last a week on the Eastern Front in WWII. When they went into Iraq and Afghanistan, it was all about the people there; but a few years later, it all about getting their soldiers home.

Kennedy saw the Umbrella Man protester and immediately knew the significance of the umbrella (the umbrella symbolized the British "appeaser" Neville Chamberlain). As the car reached the sign, Kennedy stopped smiling and withdrew his wave. I would think the Umbrella Man never shouted to Kennedy (his protest was mute and visual).

Connally seems to be looking towards Zapruder, although I think he is in the midst of turning from his far right after unsuccessfully trying to see the President over his right shoulder. Connally said he was going to try swinging his head around and look over his left shoulder, and that--as he got to looking forward--he felt the blow to his back from the bullet impact.





-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 13812


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Because you are a WC defender you have to be a Hypocrite. You never explain where your miss shot went.
Lots of kooks have offered other theories about where the JFK bullet went. Mark Fuhrman thinks it is what hit the
chrome topping. Some people think the two large fragments found in the front seat area came from two separate
bullets. There's your extra bullet. Added together they make up only 40% of an Oswald bullet. Tell us where the missing 60% went. You are  a Hypocrite.

Fuhrman's "Simple Act Theory" doesn't work. One reason: Too much upward deflection at the throat transit.



The bullet didn't touch the T1 process (what happened was pressure form the missile channel causes the process to crack and be displaced momentarily; when the missile passed, the displaced bone piece returned to its original position--that's why it was overlooked at autopsy). Therefore, there's nothing to warrant Fuhrman's amount of upward deflection that makes the bullet arrive at the windshield strip. His top drawing has the President too upright, but that's another matter.

Why would anybody think the two large fragments found in the front seat area came from two separate bullets? Ever hear tell of Occam's Razor? Simplify if possible--it's the more likely scenario.

Oswald's Sniper's Nest head-shot disintegrated and left behind dozens of small metal fragments. Two large fragments ended up on the front seat. One of those hit the steel windshield strip, making the dent. Fragments and gore going forward was what prompted Greer and Kellerman to duck in reaction.

A fragment from one of Oswald's shots went down to indirectly hit Tague. There is much debate after which shot; no one knows for sure.

   

It is possible for a large fragment from the head-shot to have gone beyond the windshield area and down towards where Tague was. There wouldn't have been much deflection. The fragment would have gradually lost momentum and descended in flight.

I am not defending Fuhrman's theory, just pointing out that some people have
tried to account for where that bullet went.
I also believe the two large fragments can from the same bullet, but you can't
prove it. And Frazier said he couldn't be sure.
And stop relying on Occam's Razor just because you can't prove something.
Baden said the bullet grazed the tip of T1. Humes didn't see it because he was
incompetent. If you can't get Furhrman's bullet up to hit the chrome topping then
you can get a fragment from the head shot up over the parade bar and down to hit
the curb near Tague.



-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 13812


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi all! I'm new to this site but not to the topic. About this piece of film - in the split second before JFK and JC react or move, just as they appear from behind the sign, in front of the umbrella man they look to be reacting to something someone has said audible to them only on their side of the vehicle. Did the umbrella man say something derogatory to them or JFK? Just before they were shot?!

Hi Brendan. Welcome.

You are quite right to notice Kennedy looking at the Umbrella Man. "TUM" was there to protest Kennedy's re-election bid, reminding people that Joesph Kennedy once thought co-existence with Hitler was somehow better than a world war in which millions of people would die (not just mostly soldiers, but the vast majority this time would be civilians, as terror bombing over cities was the big deterrent at the time).

I guess the Umbrella Man (a Young Republican and Goldwaterite, I would guess) wanted world war. Those Young Republicans would get a good taste of war (and it wasn't even total war) in Vietnam, and by about 1970--when they were killing villagers-- it seems they had had enough. Hee hee, those Republicans War-Hawks fold pretty quickly, don't they--wouldn't last a week on the Eastern Front in WWII. When they went into Iraq and Afghanistan, it was all about the people there; but a few years later, it all about getting their soldiers home.

Kennedy saw the Umbrella Man protester and immediately knew the significance of the umbrella (the umbrella symbolized the British "appeaser" Neville Chamberlain). As the car reached the sign, Kennedy stopped smiling and withdrew his wave. I would think the Umbrella Man never shouted to Kennedy (his protest was mute and visual).

Connally seems to be looking towards Zapruder, although I think he is in the midst of turning from his far right after unsuccessfully trying to see the President over his right shoulder. Connally said he was going to try swinging his head around and look over his left shoulder, and that--as he got to looking forward--he felt the blow to his back from the bullet impact.




So now you're a mind reader and know what JFK was thinking? You can't even prove
that he saw TUM.
I'm tempted to agree with your political ranting, but it's rather irrelevant to the shooting.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 4476


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hi all! I'm new to this site but not to the topic. About this piece of film - in the split second before JFK and JC react or move, just as they appear from behind the sign, in front of the umbrella man they look to be reacting to something someone has said audible to them only on their side of the vehicle. Did the umbrella man say something derogatory to them or JFK? Just before they were shot?!

Hi Brendan. Welcome.

You are quite right to notice Kennedy looking at the Umbrella Man. "TUM" was there to protest Kennedy's re-election bid, reminding people that Joesph Kennedy once thought co-existence with Hitler was somehow better than a world war in which millions of people would die (not just mostly soldiers, but the vast majority this time would be civilians, as terror bombing over cities was the big deterrent at the time).

I guess the Umbrella Man (a Young Republican and Goldwaterite, I would guess) wanted world war. Those Young Republicans would get a good taste of war (and it wasn't even total war) in Vietnam, and by about 1970--when they were killing villagers-- it seems they had had enough. Hee hee, those Republicans War-Hawks fold pretty quickly, don't they--wouldn't last a week on the Eastern Front in WWII. When they went into Iraq and Afghanistan, it was all about the people there; but a few years later, it all about getting their soldiers home.

Kennedy saw the Umbrella Man protester and immediately knew the significance of the umbrella (the umbrella symbolized the British "appeaser" Neville Chamberlain). As the car reached the sign, Kennedy stopped smiling and withdrew his wave. I would think the Umbrella Man never shouted to Kennedy (his protest was mute and visual).

Connally seems to be looking towards Zapruder, although I think he is in the midst of turning from his far right after unsuccessfully trying to see the President over his right shoulder. Connally said he was going to try swinging his head around and look over his left shoulder, and that--as he got to looking forward--he felt the blow to his back from the bullet impact.




So now you're a mind reader and know what JFK was thinking? You can't even prove
that he saw TUM.
I'm tempted to agree with your political ranting, but it's rather irrelevant to the shooting.


Don't have to channel Kennedy's thoughts from the afterlife. This works perfectly for me:





In Z225, Kennedy is still in that state where he hasn't perceived the shot that struck him at Z223. As is Connally.

Face it, it was all over for you conspiracy nuts as soon as people were able to analyze the films easier through computers. Then came (the open) Forums with instant rebuttal. Most of your claims looked pretty appealing in the publishing age, when it was basically a one-way street, with LN books rarer than hen's teeth.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 4476


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I am not defending Fuhrman's theory, just pointing out that some people have
tried to account for where that bullet went.
I also believe the two large fragments can from the same bullet, but you can't
prove it. And Frazier said he couldn't be sure.
And stop relying on Occam's Razor just because you can't prove something.

It's obvious that the two large metal fragments came from the SN head-shot. First of all, the only shots fired came from the Sniper's Nest window. Three were fired. One missed. The second one missed the President's head, but it caused the SBT, resulting in the CE 399 bullet (I'm pretty sure that any fragmentary loss from that one stayed in the Governor). That leaves one bullet for any fragments found in the car. Ergo, it's the head-shot bullet. The two fragments were found in the front seating compartment, which is forward of the President's head. It's reasonable to assume they're part of the exit debris through the top-right parietal bone. The Zapruder film shows debris exiting from the head and going forward; it covered the Connallys.

Quote
Baden said the bullet grazed the tip of T1.

The opinion of actual contact with the bullet itself varied. It the bullet (rather than pressure from its channel) actually touched the process, bone would have been taken with it.

Baden: "We have concluded that there is a fracture of the transverse process of the first thoracic vertebra which could have been caused by the bullet striking it directly or by the force of the cavity created by the bullet passing near to it." and "It might have struck the transverse process of the first thoracic vertebra but we cannot prove this. "

"There is an undisplaced fracture of the proximal portion of the right transverse process of T1." -- G.M. McDonnel, MD, Radiology Consultant (HSCA VII, 219)

"Dr. Chase said that if a fracture was present in T-1, it was peculiar in that there was no displacement of bone." -- HSCA VII, p.99

Quote
Humes didn't see it because he was incompetent.

No. His only mistake was that he palpated something that he mistook for the EOP. Seems easy enough to do, given the fracturing of the skull and the amount of hair in that area. Many trial appeals today are based on errors that were done in modern autopsies. The T1 fracture was very subtle; the Clark Panel missed it. The HSCA radiology consultants were specialists and computer enhancements were used as well as the Xrays.

Quote
If you can't get Furhrman's bullet up to hit the chrome topping then
you can get a fragment from the head shot up over the parade bar
and down to hit the curb near Tague.

Fuhrman's bullet doesn't compute. The head-shot fragment to Tague is a possibility.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 13812


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This is the best stabilization of the throat shot sequence that I have ever seen. Well done done Martin.
I have added it to the studies section as a permanent fixture.



There is nothing there.
And please don't call it the throat shot. That would be a shot from the front hitting JFK in the throat.
That is not what happened.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 13812


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I am not defending Fuhrman's theory, just pointing out that some people have
tried to account for where that bullet went.
I also believe the two large fragments can from the same bullet, but you can't
prove it. And Frazier said he couldn't be sure.
And stop relying on Occam's Razor just because you can't prove something.

It's obvious that the two large metal fragments came from the SN head-shot. First of all, the only shots fired came from the Sniper's Nest window. Three were fired. One missed. The second one missed the President's head, but it caused the SBT, resulting in the CE 399 bullet (I'm pretty sure that any fragmentary loss from that one stayed in the Governor). That leaves one bullet for any fragments found in the car. Ergo, it's the head-shot bullet. The two fragments were found in the front seating compartment, which is forward of the President's head. It's reasonable to assume they're part of the exit debris through the top-right parietal bone. The Zapruder film shows debris exiting from the head and going forward; it covered the Connallys.

Quote
Baden said the bullet grazed the tip of T1.

The opinion of actual contact with the bullet itself varied. It the bullet (rather than pressure from its channel) actually touched the process, bone would have been taken with it.

Baden: "We have concluded that there is a fracture of the transverse process of the first thoracic vertebra which could have been caused by the bullet striking it directly or by the force of the cavity created by the bullet passing near to it." and "It might have struck the transverse process of the first thoracic vertebra but we cannot prove this. "

"There is an undisplaced fracture of the proximal portion of the right transverse process of T1." -- G.M. McDonnel, MD, Radiology Consultant (HSCA VII, 219)

"Dr. Chase said that if a fracture was present in T-1, it was peculiar in that there was no displacement of bone." -- HSCA VII, p.99

Quote
Humes didn't see it because he was incompetent.

No. His only mistake was that he palpated something that he mistook for the EOP. Seems easy enough to do, given the fracturing of the skull and the amount of hair in that area. Many trial appeals today are based on errors that were done in modern autopsies. The T1 fracture was very subtle; the Clark Panel missed it. The HSCA radiology consultants were specialists and computer enhancements were used as well as the Xrays.

Quote
If you can't get Furhrman's bullet up to hit the chrome topping then
you can get a fragment from the head shot up over the parade bar
and down to hit the curb near Tague.

Fuhrman's bullet doesn't compute. The head-shot fragment to Tague is a possibility.

You say it's obvious because you can't prove it. It is just one of several possibilities.
Don't harp of Fuhrman. You didn't WIN anything because I had only brought him up as one kook with one kooky theory.
You claimed that one one else proposed a solution.
That is not true. You were trying to use Argumentum ad Ignorantiam to claim that unless someone had a competing
explanation your explanation must be true by default.



-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 4567

"The human mind is our fundamental resource." JFK


bump


-------------------------

   ReplyReply
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22


Jump to:  

JFK Assassination Forum Assassination of JFK discussion and debate surrounding the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy In Dealey Plaza Texas on November 22nd 1963

JFK Assassination Photographs Gallery

JFK Assassination Forum Assassination of JFK discussion and debate surrounding the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy In Dealey Plaza Texas on November 22nd 1963
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines