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Statements That Sink The WCs Conclusions -- #433  (Read 9579 times)

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I believe there were FPFCC leaflets that were stamped with the Hidell name that were handed out on August 9, 1963......

As I recall Jim Garrison had retrieved some of the leaflets that Lee had been handing out and they had AJ Hidell stamped on them

  

None of this is evidence for showing that LHO had the forged Selective Service card on him on November 22, 1963.


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There's a passing mention in the Dec 3 1963 from Bentley to Curry that Oswald said "denied shooting anybody."

Just curious but had Oswald been apprised of his possible involvement in the assassination or Tippett's murder as he was driven to city hall? Otherwise why would he make that remark?


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Hmmm...that's got to be a false memory.  The SS card doesn't say "A.J. Hidell" and FPCC card doesn't present Oswald as being Hidell.  If the New Orleans police had any contemporary record of the fake SS card though, that would be interesting.

It might be useful to identify when, how (A. or A.J.) and by whom A.J. Hidell is first claimed to be linked with Oswald.
CE813 a form 731 vaccination certificate dated 8 June, 1963, displays A.J. Hi dell playing the role of doctor.
It is alleged a forgery presented by Oswald in the course of obtaining a passport issued on 25 June.

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.........
Mr. STUCKEY. So we had a few cursory remarks there about the organization. He showed me his membership card to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which was interesting, and .it identified him as the secretary of the New Orleans chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was that president or secretary?
Mr. STUCKEY. President, A. Hidell. He was identified on the card. as I recall, as the secretary.
Mr. JENNER. That is, Oswald?
Mr. STUCKEY. Oswald; yes. It was a card on which there was a handwritten--it said "Mr." and then a blank, and a handwritten name "Lee Oswald" was in the center of the card. In the lower right-hand corner it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was this name familiar to you?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; as a matter of fact, I would like to explain this, that the name meant nothing to me at all, and the name never occurred to me again, I never thought of the name again, until after the assassination when Mr. Henry Wade of Dallas on television on a Sunday, I believe, mentioned that Oswald purchased a rifle from a Chicago mail-order house and had used the name A. Hidell in purchasing the rifle. When he said "A. Hidell" it hit me like, it was like a light bulb over my head, I recalled the name. Otherwise I would never have remembered the name. Oswald gave me some pieces of literature at this time. There were several-- I will mention them if you would like.
Mr. JENNER. I wish you would. .........


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Mr. BRINGUIER. He was working in the Pap's Super Market here in New Orleans. I believe so, that he was working over there. There was one Cuban who, when saw his face in the television, called me to tell me that, and I called the Secret Service and let them know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Steele will be in the office here this afternoon, so we will have an opportunity to determine if it is the same man that was marked with the arrow in Pizzo Exhibit 453-A or not.
So you went over to the International Trade Mart on this day in an attempt to find Oswald, but you were not successful? Is that correct?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is correct. After that my friend showed to me one of the leaflets that Oswald was handing out in front of the International Trade Mart, the yellow leaflets, and I found something interesting at this point. There was a difference among the leaflets that he was handing out on August 16 in the International Trade Mart and the leaflets that he was handing out on Canal Street on August 9.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was the difference?
Mr. BRINGUIER. The leaflet he was handing out on Canal Street August 9 didn't have his name of Oswald, at least the ones that I saw. They have the name A. J. Hidell, and one post office box here in New Orleans and the address, and the leaflets that he was handing out on August 16 have the name L. H. Oswald, 4907 Magazine Street. In the yellow leaflets he was offering free literature and lectures, and he was asking to the people to join the New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and at the end he said, "Everyone welcome." My friend asked to me if I think that it would be good that he will go to Oswald's house posing as a pro-Castro and try to get as much information as possible from Oswald. I told him yes; and that night he went to Oswald's house with the leaflets.
Mr. LIEBELER. What day was this now? Do you remember?
Mr. BRINGUIER. August 16. I believe so. I think that. I am sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was the same day that----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That he was distributing the leaflets.
Mr. LIEBELER. The second time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. The second time. The first time was a Friday, August 9, and the second time I think that was another Friday, August 16....


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« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 04:44:49 AM by Tom Scully »

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This report (CD 1) was written after the assassination.  Is there an FBI report from August 1963 that mentions Hidell?

I am not sure, but probably not a "report." By the time the FBI conducted their investigation and wrote up the report on Oswald mentioning Hidell, it was October 31, 1963.

See As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. This is a lengthy report, so you want to skip to page 7, or maybe not.

While I was about to post a short reply showing CE826, I came across the obvious issue of FBI document forgery, fakery, and disparity. I don't claim to follow it all, but the venerable Harold Weisberg looked at the problems of the New Orleans report... in 1969! So I will defer to his judgment in some of this. Weisberg notes the seemingly ignorant and short-sighted Kaack report and the ridiculous "interviewed [...] at his request" by SA Quigley. The circumstances of Oswald being interviewed by the FBI is left to our imagination.

So when Oswald knowingly lies to the interviewee (John Quigley), we see someone who doesn't step in to the investigation narrative to reveal the lies. (Oswald's wife's origin, his employment history, and the fake people who were in the Cuba committee.) Was Quigley duped? That seems impossible. I haven't read everything in the files from New Orleans, but there were letters flying back and forth between Dallas and NO about Lee's address... in July, August, and September 1963. [My SOURCE: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login ] Surely, the Oswald was well-known to the FBI, even if none of the informants knew him.

Weisberg states it more ominously (sorry, OCR not perfect):

**********WEISBERG ON******************
Examination o! the report at so late a date perhaps illuminates it more end discloses significant omissions th.at cannot be accidental, omissions
th~t amount to deliberate ralsifioation, end strange juggling witb.in  the FBI Hew Orleans office, at the Tery least. I think t~ie ere not inconsistent With LEO having been en informant tor the FBI, of which I have no proof.

[...]

Page 5 is the first poge or the 8/15/63 Quigley report. It is an unlikely account, beginning w1 th the statement Oswald "waa interviewed at his request, 111.th no indication of why or the unusualness. It gives the termination date of0s"8ld's Reily anployment as 1'11317, casting further doubt on the later offiicial story. In tbe second paragreph 1 t gives a fictitious account of Oswald's :post-Marine career thet the FBI knew to be false and about which Quigley is without comment) and that Oswald had every reason to believe the FBI would know to be false. There is no reason to believe it is what Oswald said, ea there is no proof it is not. However, it cen b, assumed Oswald did know his a wife's maiden name, which tbi !! re'P')Jrt does not reflect { "Pro sea"). Tha re is no suggestion Oswald l8 d been a defecter who also had threatened to give away real military secrets, none of his being asked about it. Now, if it can be argued that at the time he intarviewed Oswald
[...]

Page 6 has a deadpan presentat1on of what was attributed to Oswald, that he was a member ot the .N.o. FPCC, held meetings of it at his home, a!ld didn't know the names or any of the members.
[...]

Page 7 is more of the same improbabilities.

*****************WEISBERG OFF******************

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So did I prove that Hidell was known to the FBI in August? Or that the FBI was too busy cranking out ridiculous reports to chase down Hidell?

My question is whether the FBI folks in New Orleans were utter incompetents, pencil pushers masquerading as agents, or whether the hot summer of 1963 just slowed the progress. These guys act too dumb to fabricate a Hidell story on November 23... or... maybe like Weisberg thought... the FBI is playing dumb with the Hidell fake name business. For all we know, Hidell was the FBI's creation for Oswald to use.

Did Oswald really volunteer all this information to the FBI, only to be mad a few months later when Hosty in Dallas wanted to talk to his whom he married in "Fort Worth" with the name of Marina "Prossa"? I am sorry for presenting all of this evidence and then saying that it seems to be fishy. Something about it stinks. Maybe passing out Cuban literature... on Canal Street... in the name of Oswald Hidell... has something to do with it. Or maybe flashing a fake card with Hidell on it, to the FBI, in a voluntary interview, is just your routine quirky, loony Oswald.


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« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:40:16 AM by Billy Carr »

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There's a passing mention in the Dec 3 1963 from Bentley to Curry that Oswald said "denied shooting anybody."

Just curious but had Oswald been apprised of his possible involvement in the assassination or Tippett's murder as he was driven to city hall? Otherwise why would he make that remark?

I doubt that he would have been appraised of this as he was only arrested for the JDT murder supposedly. Furthermore, he wasn't allegedly tied to the alleged murder weapons until the afternoon of November 23rd, so how could he legally be charged for either crime on November 22?


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None of this is evidence for showing that LHO had the forged Selective Service card on him on November 22, 1963.

Rob...The card was NOT a "Selective Service Card".....   It wasn't even a reasonable facsimile of a draft card.....

The point is:    The FBI agents Hosty, Odum and Bookhout would have know at a glance that the card wasn't even a fair likeness of a real draft card....  So why did they perpetrate the lie???


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« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 01:04:45 AM by Walt Cakebread »

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Rob...The card was NOT a "Selective Service Card".....   It wasn't even a reasonable facsimile of a draft card.....

The point is:    The FBI agents Hosty, Odum and Bookhout would have know at a glance that the card wasn't even a fair likeness of a real draft card....  So why did they perpetrate the lie???

Walt -- who cares?  The WC called it a Selective Service card so that is what I go by. The point is that the card was fake and it was used to try and link LHO to the alleged murder weapons. But there is NO evidence showing that LHO ever had this card on him on November 22 as claimed.


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There's a passing mention in the Dec 3 1963 from Bentley to Curry that Oswald said "denied shooting anybody."

Just curious but had Oswald been apprised of his possible involvement in the assassination or Tippett's murder as he was driven to city hall? Otherwise why would he make that remark?

Tom, could you put Bentley's remark in context?

It's common knowledge that Lee did in fact deny shooting anybody......     But Did Bentley indicate that Lee Oswald denied it in the police car just minutes after he was dragged from the theater?

I have no doubt that the cops who were "escorting" him out of the theater had made remarks to him about being a cop killer and accusing him of the murder of J.D.Tippit. 



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