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Statements That Sink The WC’s Conclusions -- #433  (Read 7741 times)

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Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.

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The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) assassinated President John F. Kennedy (JFK) by firing three shots at him from the southeastern window of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building on November 22, 1963. The method he allegedly used to accomplish this feat was a rifle.

A World War II surplus Italian Mannlicher-Carcano (M-C) to be exact. The WC needed to link LHO to this weapon at all costs since it was the alleged murder weapon in this case according to the WC.

The method that the WC used was a chain of claims that they presented no supporting evidence for. They claimed that LHO created and used an alias “A.J. Hidell”. As we have seen previously in this series there is zero evidence for showing that LHO ever used this alias. In fact, on his arrest sheet this name is NOT listed as an alias of his.

A single piece of evidence would be used to try and link LHO to the Hidell name, and by extension to the alleged murder weapon. This post will look at the alleged discovery of this evidence on the day of the assassination.


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The piece of evidence that the WC and the Dallas Police Department (DPD) used to connect LHO to the alleged murder weapon was a fake Selective Service card. The WC wrote the following in their report regarding how the alleged card was discovered by the DPD.

Quote on

The arresting officers found a forged selective service card with a picture of Oswald and the name of “Alek J. Hidell” in Oswald’s billfold. (WCR, p. 181)

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Quote off

Unfortunately for the WC and the DPD there is no supporting evidence for this claim. In fact, the evidence included in the twenty-six volumes contradicts this claim.

As we have seen the official list of evidence taken off of LHO fails to even mention a billfold (Commission Exhibit (CE) 1148), so how could this card be in a wallet that doesn’t officially exist? On November 22 the name “Alek J. Hidell” was never officially used in conjunction with LHO. How can this be if this card was supposedly found on LHO on November 22?

We have seen that the ONLY alias listed and mentioned on November 22 was “O.H. Lee” (David Johnston Exhibit 1, p. 314), and NOT “Alek J. Hidell” as claimed. Further confirmation of this came from a press conference on the evening of November 22 when a question was asked about the name on the billfold and the answer was “Lee H. Oswald. O-S-W-A-L-D” (CE 2160, p. 805).

If the forged Selective Service card was actually found as claimed on November 22, why was there absolutely NO mention of this name on November 22 and a good part of November 23?

All the WC offered was the word of Detective Paul Bentley via a FBI report dated June 11, 1964, in which he stated that he took LHO’s wallet off of him in the police car at the urging of Sergeant Gerald Hill. Upon doing this he supposedly found the forged Selective Service card. Ironically, the WC never called Bentley as a witness. Why not?

Another piece of evidence that should have tipped the police off as to who their suspect was can be found in Detective Richard Sims’ testimony.


Mr. BALL. Did you see any identification bracelet on Oswald?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; he had an identification bracelet.

Mr. BALL. Did he have that on at the time of the showup?
 
Mr. SIMS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever remove that?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; when they were getting his paraffin cast on his hands.

Mr. BALL. And what did you do with that identification bracelet?

Mr. SIMS. I placed it in the property room cardsheet.

Mr. BALL. Did you examine that identification bracelet?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did it have on it, if you remember?

Mr. SIMS. It had his name on it.

So LHO was wearing an identification bracelet with his name on it! Given this, how could anyone think that his name was anything other than LHO?  

Back to Bentley. Remember his June 11, 1964 FBI report in which he claimed to see the forged Selective Service card in LHO’s wallet?  If this really happened why was none of this mentioned in his December 3, 1963, report to DPD Chief Jesse Curry?


Quote on

On the way to the city hall I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name. He made several remarks en route to the city hall about police brutality and denied shooting anybody. . . . I turned his identification over to Lieutenant Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's office to make a report of this arrest. (CE 2003, p. 78)

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Quote off

There is no mention of the forged Selective Service card in this report which was dated just eleven days after the assassination. This shows Bentley’s later comments are  suspect. The fact that the WC didn’t call him to testify only reinforces this suspicious.

Not one of the arresting officers mentioned any alias for LHO in their contemporaneous reports (Bob Carroll, K.E. Lyon, and C.T. Walker (CE 2003, pp. 81-82, 91, and 100-101 respectively)).

There is not one piece of evidence that shows anyone in the DPD, FBI or Secret Service (SS) ever thought LHO was “Alek J. Hidell” BEFORE the rifle was allegedly traced to the alleged alias on late Saturday afternoon. Based on the evidence it is clear that the forged Selective Service card was used by the authorities and the WC to link LHO to the alleged rifle order.

As for the forged Selective Service card there is no evidence that shows LHO created this card as claimed. Furthermore, if he did, why would he add his own photograph when it wasn’t required? It makes more sense that someone else created this card and added LHO’s photograph for good measure. It was overkill though as Selective Service cards did not have photographs on them.

Once again we see that the WC failed to provide any supporting evidence for their claim, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.


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« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 07:14:34 PM by Rob Caprio »

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So where is the actual evidence that shows LHO had the SS card on him at the time of his arrest as claimed?


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The earliest report of the Hidell card was in the CD5 Gemberling Report, dated November 30, 1963.





This was therefore relatively early evidence known to the FBI about Hidell.

Also, according to CD1 (the big FBI Summary Report), dated December 9, 1963, there is a mention of the FBI interviewing Oswald in New Orleans back on August 10, 1963. The FBI saw at least one card signed by Hidell at that time.






See As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login for more on Commission Document 1, CD1.

I am guessing that some original information about Hidell was gathered by the New Orleans FBI in August 1963. Is this forged FBI evidence, produced after Oswald was in custody? Was it produced after he was already dead to cover-up the rifle ownership issue?

Again, if any of this is fake, the FBI is manufacturing evidence within a week or so of the assassination. And they are colluding with the Dallas Police to make this evidence stick... to a dead man. How do you explain the August knowledge and search for Hidell by the FBI?

For OCR purposes, here is what the documents above state approximately:
Quote
At his request, Oswald was interviewed on August 10, 1963, at the First District Station, New Orleans Police Department, by an FBI agent. Oswald advised he had established residence in New Orleans about four months earlier and that after coming to New Orleans he had begun reading various types of literature distributed by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

and

Quote
Activities of One A. J. Bidell
Oswald said that he had sent a letter to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee Headquarters in New York City together with $5 advif'dng that he wished to join this group. According to Oswald, in late May, he received a Fair Play for Cuba Committee national membership car dated May 28, 1963, and signed by V. T. Lee. Shortly thereafter, he he also received a membership card for the New Orleans Chapter oft Fair Play for Cuba Committee dated June 6, 1963, and signed by one
A. J. Bidell. Oswald exhibited both cards. (Exhibits ll, 35)

Oswald said that subsequent to joining the Fair Play for Cuba Committee he had received a m,">nthly circular from this group and haA spoken with Bidell on the telephone on several occasions conceriliug general matters regarding Fair Play for Cuba Committee business. However, be said he had never personally met Bidell and could not recall the latter's telephone number. Oswald claimed Bidell had previously had a telephone but that it had been discontinued.



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« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:09:19 PM by Billy Carr »

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I am guessing that some original information about Hidell was gathered by the New Orleans FBI in August 1963. Is this forged FBI evidence, produced after Oswald was in custody? Was it produced after he was already dead to cover-up the rifle ownership issue?

This report (CD 1) was written after the assassination.  Is there an FBI report from August 1963 that mentions Hidell?


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This report (CD 1) was written after the assassination.  Is there an FBI report from August 1963 that mentions Hidell?

I believe there were FPFCC leaflets that were stamped with the Hidell name that were handed out on August 9, 1963......

As I recall Jim Garrison had retrieved some of the leaflets that Lee had been handing out and they had AJ Hidell stamped on them

  


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« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:30:51 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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I believe there were FPFCC leaflets that were stamped with the Hidell name that were handed out on August 9, 1963......

Supposedly.  But is there a pre-11/22/63 source that mentions it?  And how would such a leaflet demonstrate that Hidell was a pseudonym of Oswald and not a real person or a name being used by somebody else at that time in New Orleans?


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Supposedly.  But is there a pre-11/22/63 source that mentions it?  And how would such a leaflet demonstrate that Hidell was a pseudonym of Oswald and not a real person or a name being used by somebody else at that time in New Orleans?

Isn't there testimony from the HSCA that says the local Military Intelligence unit had a Hidell file, pre-assassination.

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« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:03:58 PM by Gary Craig »

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Hmmm...that's got to be a false memory.  The SS card doesn't say "A.J. Hidell" and FPCC card doesn't present Oswald as being Hidell.  If the New Orleans police had any contemporary record of the fake SS card though, that would be interesting.


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