JFK Assassination Forum 
Logo
HomeThe Robin Unger JFK Assassination GalleryYoutube JFK Assassination Video ChannelSearchNotepadLoginRegister

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 23, 2017, 12:11:11 PM
News: Posts and threads containing swear words, personal insults or crudities, content considered by Admin to be spamming, when reported or observed, may be edited or deleted.
The perpetrator of any offense may receive a posting suspension of a period to be determined by Admin in relation to the considered severity of the offense.
Questions relating to deletions or edits will not be answered by Admin via any communication method here or elsewhere.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 358
The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?  (Read 180900 times)

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7173

semper paratus semper terrarium


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cakebread and his sidekick Paul

As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>


You see personal attack whatever how many posts.

Nutter speak, Mr. Steve Slogan.


-------------------------
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 09:40:32 PM by Paul Ernst »

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


Gentlemen,

it would be fabulous if we can debate the topic on hand rather than disintegrate the thread into personal attacks and insults. Please bring in your knowledge and expertise in discussing the highly contentious CE 142.

I would like to see how a bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD inherited a flap at one end. It goes to show that even after 50 years we are learning new information - there must be 100's of photos or footage that we have not seen.

It was the bag that directly linked LHO to the MC. If the bag was NOT present in the SN, it will have massive implications for the case against LHO.  thumbs1xx

Discuss away


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it  thumbs1xx

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, "No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination"

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.




Alan,

unfortunately we see the same MO all the time when it came to LHO - as soon as the MC was linked to him - party over - no matter what anyone observed or stated to the contrary - all roads led to LHO. End of story.

If is extremely difficult to disentangle the MC with LHO - it was that powerful, no matter where in the TSBD it was found.

So one has to carefully deconstruct the crime scene. CE 142 is a real issue because without a means of transporting in the MC - the DP had nothing, same with the FBI.

It was absolutely essential to link CE 142 with LHO. Right on cue - a finger and palm print appears after two different methods were used - magnetic powder and iodine fumes - zip. Silver nitrate worked a treat.

Considering LHO "handled" the materials to make the bag and transported it - one would have thought that the bag would have been "swimming" in finger prints. At 8 pounds you would exert some force to hold the bag. Bizarre to the max.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7663


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tony.....Many years ago I saw a photo of LD Montgomery with that big bag. It was taken in front of the TSBD just like the photos you have posted .....EXCEPT......  The curved handle of an umbrella could be seen in his hand.   That sack was covering an Umbrella.....  

No doubt it's being hidden in the same box as the film of Curry saying that Oswald had a coke in his hand and the film of LBJ saying "AH cum tew yew with a havy heart.....Yer president is daid".


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Gentlemen,

it would be fabulous if we can debate the topic on hand rather than disintegrate the thread into personal attacks and insults. Please bring in your knowledge and expertise in discussing the highly contentious CE 142.

I would like to see how a bag that Montgomery took out of the TSBD inherited a flap at one end. It goes to show that even after 50 years we are learning new information - there must be 100's of photos or footage that we have not seen.

It was the bag that directly linked LHO to the MC. If the bag was NOT present in the SN, it will have massive implications for the case against LHO.  thumbs1xx

Discuss away

With all due respect Tony, if you push back against Walt's response to your OP now, your future threads may be what you expect this
thread to be. If you let it pass, all of your future threads, and this entire forum will be as Walt intends them to be.

As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
...........
Mr Fratini..... You opened this thread with this statement......."I have decided to form a separate thread on CE 142 - the so called rifle case shaped bag"


But nowhere in the post do you show a   RIFLE CASED SHAPED BAG     

This is not meant as criticism or to disparage your work......  What I am attempting to point out is the cops originally said that they found a gun case shaped bag in the building and that is how they believed that the dirty little back shootin, coward, commie LEE HARVEY OSSSSWALD got the rifle into the building.

But no gun case SHAPED bag was ever produced.....   

Anybody who is familiar with rifles or shotguns knows that a Gun Case is  TAPERED   small at the muzzle end and bigger at the butt end.     

Detective Day is on record as saying that he found such a "GUN CASE SHAPED BAG"  and picked it up and turned to Roy Truly and asked him if he had ever seen that before.   Truly said he had never seen it.     Day folded that GUN CASE SHAPED bag up and put it in his pocket, never to be seen again.......

WHY??

Your choice....please choose carefully, before Walt transforms the atmosphere to where it doesn't matter, anymore.
He exerts his influence, 21 times per day here, on average.


Tom,

this is why I posted the caveat to please remain on topic. As Walt pointed out there were many issues regarding the SN and many articles have been written about it.

The damning fact is that there was no in situ photo of the bag that Montgomery was holding in his hand in the SN. I have shown - Montgomery's bag is indeed CE 142. David Von Pein was correct, except there now is a ton of explanations required to account for it.

We now have the photos of the "intermediate" bag - the one in the FBI crime lab. This explains, to me, what was done to the bag and why it was done.

If there is an alternative explanation - I would appreciate hearing it. CE 677 matching up with CE 142 tightens the timeline and causes even more issues. For the WC, it would of been better for the bag (CE 142) to not have matched with CE 677.  rofl


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tony.....Many years ago I saw a photo of LD Montgomery with that big bag. It was taken in front of the TSBD just like the photos you have posted .....EXCEPT......  The curved handle of an umbrella could be seen in his hand.   That sack was covering an Umbrella.....  

No doubt it's being hidden in the same box as the film of Curry saying that Oswald had a coke in his hand and the film of LBJ saying "AH cum tew yew with a havy heart.....Yer president is daid".

John,

the irony was, that it was very likely Montgomery that caused some scratch marks in the interior of CE 142. Since he held the bag upside sown, vital "information" could have been lost. Having the bag next to the blanket (FBI crime lab) was not a good idea as well.



-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it  thumbs1xx

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, "No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination"

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.



I believe Jack Dougherty was telling the truth about seeing no package brought in by Oswald that morning despite the repeated attempts by Mr.Ball to get him to say he did.

Nothing ever wrong with giving credit where it's due, Mr. Pyne, and in this instance Mr. Dougherty--given his unique vantage point over Ball's slant tilt--simply chose to tell the truth.

Now that whole flap issue pointed out by Mr. Fratini raises even more concerns here.
Not trying to derail this thread but between BWF and JD's testimony,one of them is lying about the package,they both can't be right can they?
I apologize if this has been covered in a previous thread/topic.

There was always the possibility that what ever LHO brought in may have been left in the Northern Annex prior to entering into the first floor. However if he was carrying in his lunch he may of had it tucked into his jacket. However, trying to conceal the bag that Montgomery was carrying - that is another story.


-------------------------

   ReplyReply

Super Member
*****

Posts: 7990


As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A rather interesting post, Mr. Fratini, thanks for sharing it  thumbs1xx

I take away the following:

*Mr. Dougherty fails to see any package in tow when Oswald enters that morning.

*and, quote, "No one saw LHO with a package, or construct one, at any time prior to or on the day of the assassination"

Toss in your keen observations in respect to the flap, and something is clearly amiss here.

Time and time again, as with other evidence throughout this case, there never is a natural progression of evidence linking Oswald to anything as much as something else in play, by any other name remains the same.



I believe Jack Dougherty was telling the truth about seeing no package brought in by Oswald that morning despite the repeated attempts by Mr.Ball to get him to say he did.

Nothing ever wrong with giving credit where it's due, Mr. Pyne, and in this instance Mr. Dougherty--given his unique vantage point over Ball's slant tilt--simply chose to tell the truth.

Now that whole flap issue pointed out by Mr. Fratini raises even more concerns here.
Not trying to derail this thread but between BWF and JD's testimony,one of them is lying about the package,they both can't be right can they?
I apologize if this has been covered in a previous thread/topic.

There was always the possibility that what ever LHO brought in may have been left in the Northern Annex prior to entering into the first floor. However if he was carrying in his lunch he may of had it tucked into his jacket. However, trying to conceal the bag that Montgomery was carrying - that is another story.
Thank you Mr.Fratini for your input on this issue of BWF vs. JD's testimony of whether LHO actually entered the TSBD with a long package.
Not knowing the layout of the building,Iv'e always wondered if there was a place Oswald could have stashed the package just inside before being seen by Dougherty.
I guess you're saying there was such a place?


Definitely - there were two annexes - one on the Northern end and one on the Western end. These were covered spaces. BWF saw LHO enter at the back, he didn't see what LHO did with what he was carrying. Dougherty "caught a glimpse" of LHO as he entered. I think it would have been highly unlikely that he "missed" seeing the bag that Montgomery came out with in LHO's hand. Keep that in mind - CE 142 does NOT look like the bag that Montgomery originally took out of the TSBD. It has distinct fold marks, it devoid of creases at the base and now contains a taped flap. However Montgomery's bag is indeed CE 142  thumbs1xx It has specific identifying marks on it.

Once LHO had entered into the first floor of the TSBD - not one person saw him with any package that day.


-------------------------
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 12:04:49 AM by Tony Fratini »

   ReplyReply
0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 358


Jump to:  

JFK Assassination Forum Assassination of JFK discussion and debate surrounding the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy In Dealey Plaza Texas on November 22nd 1963

JFK Assassination Photographs Gallery

JFK Assassination Forum Assassination of JFK discussion and debate surrounding the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy In Dealey Plaza Texas on November 22nd 1963
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines