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The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?  (Read 199634 times)

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I think Weitzman heard Fritz stating that the rifle looked like a mauser....But Fritz would not admit that he was the person who started that story flying, and Weittzman was the low man on the ladder......  He  got stepped on.

Maybe, but Weitzman said he was the source, at least in his testimony.

     Mr. BALL - In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
          Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a
          7.65 Mauser bolt action?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - In a glance, that's what it looked like.
     Mr. BALL - That's what it looked like did you say that or someone
          else say that?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - No; I said that. I thought it was one.

They then sort of go over whether Weitzman had some basis for such a confident guess ...

     Mr. BALL - Are you fairly familiar with rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Fairly familiar because I was in the sporting
          goods business awhile.
     Mr. BALL - What branch of service were you in?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - U.S. Air Force.
     Mr. BALL - Did you handle rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Mostly Thompson machine guns and pistols.

I might think from that it wasn't Weitzman making Fritz look good, but Weitzman making himself look good to Fritz and company by being the "expert" on the sixth floor and back at the station.


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Maybe, but Weitzman said he was the source, at least in his testimony.

     Mr. BALL - In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
          Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a
          7.65 Mauser bolt action?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - In a glance, that's what it looked like.
     Mr. BALL - That's what it looked like did you say that or someone
          else say that?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - No; I said that. I thought it was one.

They then sort of go over whether Weitzman had some basis for such a confident guess ...

     Mr. BALL - Are you fairly familiar with rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Fairly familiar because I was in the sporting
          goods business awhile.
     Mr. BALL - What branch of service were you in?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - U.S. Air Force.
     Mr. BALL - Did you handle rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Mostly Thompson machine guns and pistols.

I might think from that it wasn't Weitzman making Fritz look good, but Weitzman making himself look good to Fritz and company by being the "expert" on the sixth floor and back at the station.

Weitzman wouldn't have countermanded his superiors.....  If he was told to accept that it was his mistake because Captain Fritz was on record as saying that Seymour Weitzman was the man who identified the rifle as a Mauser, Weitzman would have had little choice but to accept the blame.    You can detect that in his testimony......He didn't like accepting the blame.      The fact that on Saturday  11 /23 /63 the FBI created a statement in which they claimed that Weitzman gave a very detailed description of the rifle  is a very strong indicator that Weitzman was being used as cover for Fritz....


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Looks like Officer Baker corroborates Ozzie on the changed shirt.

Was it the DPD or the FBI who found(planted) the shirt fibers on the Carcano?


Testimony Of Marrion L. Baker

~snip~

Mr. BELIN - Would you state whether or not the man who was shown to you in the police station as Lee Harvey Oswald was or was not the same man that you saw and encountered on the second floor lunchroom of the Texas School Book Depository Building on that day?
Mr. BAKER - He was the same man.
Mr. BELIN- Is there anything else about his clothes that you can remember or his dress that you haven't talked about here?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; I can't.
Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

~snip~

Brennan

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.

Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?
Mr. BRENNAN. I remembered them at that time as being similar to the same color of the shirt or a little lighter. And that was another thing that I called their attention to at the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I saw the man in the window.
Mr. BELIN. You mean with reference to the trousers or the shirt?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, not particularly either. In other words, he just didn't have the same clothes on.

Reid

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150 or do you know?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen that shirt. I have been asked about that shirt before, I have seen it once before but not since all this happened

Was Lee carrying a spare wardrobe with him at the TSBD?



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« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 01:05:49 AM by Tony Fratini »

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As I recall Weitzman got the scope right, not bad at a glance...

Did any Law Enforcement Officer who was at the NW corner see CE 142 with either Day or Studebaker when Fritz called them over to photograph CE 139?





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As I recall Weitzman got the scope right, not bad at a glance...

Tom, that's demonstrably false.

Mr. Weitzman. I believe I said it was 2.5 scope on it and I believe I said it was a Weaver but it wasn’t; it turned out to be anything but a Weaver, but that was at a glance.

1963: Seymour Weitzman's guesses were way, way off and embarrassing.
2017: Tom Sorensan's guesses were way, way off and embarrassing.





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"The human mind is our fundamental resource." JFK


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Brennan

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.

Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?
Mr. BRENNAN. I remembered them at that time as being similar to the same color of the shirt or a little lighter. And that was another thing that I called their attention to at the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I saw the man in the window.
Mr. BELIN. You mean with reference to the trousers or the shirt?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, not particularly either. In other words, he just didn't have the same clothes on.

Reid

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150 or do you know?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen that shirt. I have been asked about that shirt before, I have seen it once before but not since all this happened

Was Lee carrying a spare wardrobe with him at the TSBD?

Who did Baker encounter on the stairway between the 3rd & 4th floors?
Carolyn Walther saw someone similarly clad standing next to a gunman in a TSBD window.

JFK assassination witness Carolyn Walther describes seeing 2 different gunmen
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Who did Baker encounter on the stairway between the 3rd & 4th floors?
Carolyn Walther saw someone similarly clad standing next to a gunman in a TSBD window.

JFK assassination witness Carolyn Walther describes seeing 2 different gunmen
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not Lee Harvey Oswald

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.

"our investigation"?




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not Lee Harvey Oswald

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.

"our investigation"?


"our investigation"?

I wonder when that investigation took place?

As late as 12/23/63 Fritz was writing a report repeating Baker's original 3rd or 4th floor encounter.



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