 Ian Lloyd |
 July 31, 2009, 09:32:38 AM
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JFK's head movement is usually described in terms of Stone's movie as "back-and-to-the-left". Some say that the Z-film shows an initial forward movement prior to the back-and-to-the-left movement, whereas others say the forward movement is just movement or blurring of the film due to movement of the camera at that moment, giving the impression of a slight forward movement of the head.
Being a complete "non-expert" in film & photography, I'd be interested to read some more "expert" opnions on this...
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July 31, 2009, 10:14:55 AM
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« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 07:51:34 PM by Duncan MacRae »
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An opinion based on something other than fact, is an opinion based on ignorance. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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July 31, 2009, 07:04:52 PM
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Duncan, sorry to intruded here, I'm not an expert in the field. But I totally believe, and I think it is very obvious, that JFK's head goes forward very fast and very violently, evidence of the head shot from behind.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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Ian Lloyd |
July 31, 2009, 07:19:20 PM
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Duncan, sorry to intruded here, I'm not an expert in the field. But I totally believe, and I think it is very obvious, that JFK's head goes forward very fast and very violently, evidence of the head shot from behind.
Bill, You're not intruding, this is a forum for discussion after all...anyway, you make an interesting point there Bill, whereby the inference is that the very violent back-and-to-the-left movement must surely therefore be evidence of a shot from the front right?
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Ian Lloyd |
July 31, 2009, 07:27:55 PM
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Thanks Duncan - certainly looks convincing of a forward movement...
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July 31, 2009, 07:51:03 PM
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Duncan, sorry to intruded here, I'm not an expert in the field. But I totally believe, and I think it is very obvious, that JFK's head goes forward very fast and very violently, evidence of the head shot from behind.
As Ian says Bill, you're not intruding. I agree with you completely. The question I put forward now is..Is the back and to the left movement simply the recoil reaction, or is it a simultaneous headshot at the exact moment that the recoil started in combination with a headshot from the front? A shot hitting from the front requires the latter criteria in my opinion. 
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« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 08:09:08 PM by Duncan MacRae »
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July 31, 2009, 08:44:56 PM
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I know I've posted this in another thread, but I believe it has a place here.
You've heard about rocket scientists? Well, since 1989 Duncan MacPherson has been an independent technical consultant to organizations interested in space flight activities. Not that MacPherson decided, 8 years ago, to take this up as a hobby.
Back in 1959 he developed a new guidance technique and the equations that were used to guide the Mercury astronauts into orbit on the Atlas launch vehicle. These equations were modified under his supervision to control Gemini and, later, Apollo launches. Both his BS and MS degrees were won at MIT's Honors Course in Mechanical Engineering.
Since the late 1960's, following those wonderful Summers of Love, MacPherson branched into Systems Engineering, relating primarily to trajectory dynamics.
An interview with Duncan MacPherson:
"In general, body movement in response to nervous system trauma is a result of contractions in body muscles. This is related to movements of your leg when a doctor raps you on the knee with his little mallet; your leg moves because a nerve induces a muscle contraction, not because it was driven into motion by the force of the tiny rap with the mallet. The slightly peculiar location of Kennedy's arms after the 399 bullet impact is known as Thorburn's position, after a description by Dr. William Thorburn in an 1889 paper on injuries to the area of the spinal chord damaged by bullet 399. In addition to this effect, simulations have shown that bullet strikes to the skull that result in blowing out a significant hole upon exit result in skull recoil towards the bullet entry direction. The dynamics of this are a little complicated, but are more related to the pressure inside the skull cavity created by the bullet passage than to effects directly related to the bullet movement. The dynamics of this kind of impact were demonstrated independently in testing by Dr. Luis Alvarez and by Dr. John K. Lattimer et al."
"The main aspect of the Kennedy assassination that would surprise most people is how uncontroversial the wound ballistics aspects are among the physicians in the country who are most experienced in gunshot trauma (I am not one of these, but have talked to several). It is a sad truth that most autopsy reports are full of errors and inconsistencies which are obvious to any careful review; it shouldn't be like this, but it is. The problems with the Kennedy autopsy do not require a conspiracy to explain, they are more or less business as usual exposed to the glare of careful examination. Likewise, the work of Lattimer and Fackler is simply a very sound, complete, and careful examination and reconstruction of that facts that should be the standard in all cases, but isn't."
"Some argument can be made in the typical investigation that the talent and resources just are not available to meet a first class standard, but one can hardly argue that this situation is applicable to the Warren report. The Warren commission should have used all of the best talent available to make the most complete analysis possible, but they didn't. In fairness, it is always easier to criticize than to perform."
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July 31, 2009, 08:55:58 PM
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Is the back and to the left movement simply the recoil reaction, or is it a simultaneous headshot at the exact moment that the recoil started in combination with a headshot from the front?
The recoil reaction is obvious to my eyes -- and so is the reaction of the gelatinous material that first "blobs" forward and then snaps backward as the recoil begins. I see no physical reaction to a shot from the front. Also, please see this video of a bullet entering a block of gelatin. Notice how the extreme force of the bullet creates a tsunami of action MOVING FORWARD. As the bullet exits the gelatin, see the "bubble" that "blobs" forward then snaps back - exactly the way JFK's gelatinous brain material did. <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]>
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« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 09:04:17 PM by Mark Valenti »
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Ian Lloyd |
July 31, 2009, 09:02:53 PM
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I know I've posted this in another thread, but I believe it has a place here.
You've heard about rocket scientists? Well, since 1989 Duncan MacPherson has been an independent technical consultant to organizations interested in space flight activities. Not that MacPherson decided, 8 years ago, to take this up as a hobby.
Back in 1959 he developed a new guidance technique and the equations that were used to guide the Mercury astronauts into orbit on the Atlas launch vehicle. These equations were modified under his supervision to control Gemini and, later, Apollo launches. Both his BS and MS degrees were won at MIT's Honors Course in Mechanical Engineering.
Since the late 1960's, following those wonderful Summers of Love, MacPherson branched into Systems Engineering, relating primarily to trajectory dynamics.
An interview with Duncan MacPherson:
"In general, body movement in response to nervous system trauma is a result of contractions in body muscles. This is related to movements of your leg when a doctor raps you on the knee with his little mallet; your leg moves because a nerve induces a muscle contraction, not because it was driven into motion by the force of the tiny rap with the mallet. The slightly peculiar location of Kennedy's arms after the 399 bullet impact is known as Thorburn's position, after a description by Dr. William Thorburn in an 1889 paper on injuries to the area of the spinal chord damaged by bullet 399. In addition to this effect, simulations have shown that bullet strikes to the skull that result in blowing out a significant hole upon exit result in skull recoil towards the bullet entry direction. The dynamics of this are a little complicated, but are more related to the pressure inside the skull cavity created by the bullet passage than to effects directly related to the bullet movement. The dynamics of this kind of impact were demonstrated independently in testing by Dr. Luis Alvarez and by Dr. John K. Lattimer et al."
"The main aspect of the Kennedy assassination that would surprise most people is how uncontroversial the wound ballistics aspects are among the physicians in the country who are most experienced in gunshot trauma (I am not one of these, but have talked to several). It is a sad truth that most autopsy reports are full of errors and inconsistencies which are obvious to any careful review; it shouldn't be like this, but it is. The problems with the Kennedy autopsy do not require a conspiracy to explain, they are more or less business as usual exposed to the glare of careful examination. Likewise, the work of Lattimer and Fackler is simply a very sound, complete, and careful examination and reconstruction of that facts that should be the standard in all cases, but isn't."
"Some argument can be made in the typical investigation that the talent and resources just are not available to meet a first class standard, but one can hardly argue that this situation is applicable to the Warren report. The Warren commission should have used all of the best talent available to make the most complete analysis possible, but they didn't. In fairness, it is always easier to criticize than to perform."
Bill, Looking at the frames that Duncan posted, what appears to be matter exploding out from the head seems to appear virtually simultaneously, so could the forward movement also be a neurological reaction?
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July 31, 2009, 10:28:11 PM
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Is the back and to the left movement simply the recoil reaction, or is it a simultaneous headshot at the exact moment that the recoil started in combination with a headshot from the front?
The recoil reaction is obvious to my eyes -- and so is the reaction of the gelatinous material that first "blobs" forward and then snaps backward as the recoil begins. I see no physical reaction to a shot from the front. Also, please see this video of a bullet entering a block of gelatin. Notice how the extreme force of the bullet creates a tsunami of action MOVING FORWARD. As the bullet exits the gelatin, see the "bubble" that "blobs" forward then snaps back - exactly the way JFK's gelatinous brain material did. <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> Mark, I always appreciate a good experiment and I'm not trying to be picky - but that is a hollow point being fired into the block. That will result in a different wound profile vs. metal jacket slug. Best to you, Jerry
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