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Bill, How Did Rose Cheramie Know What Lee Was Going To Do ? (Read 9467 times)

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Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 09:31:04 AM

Super Member

Posts: 8758

Bill,

You say that Lee was a lone nut who operated alone on his own, completely without the foreknowledge and/or assistance of anyone else, any abetting conspirators, in Lee's perpetration of the assassination.

OK

Now, a simple question, please:

How come, then, did Rose Cheramie know on Nov. 20, 1963 that Lee was going to kill JFK?

Thanks

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« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 02:41:07 PM by Miles Scull »

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Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 11:28:27 AM

Super Member

Posts: 9052

If one were to believe Cherami's story, then I have this point to make.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations examined Secret Service files, and found that from March through December 1963 the agency received information on over 400 possible threats to the President. (See the HSCA Report, p. 230.) Of course, many instances of loose and violent talk about the President being killed never were reported. For example, the rantings of Joseph Milteer attracted Secret Service attention, but the statements of Rose Cherami did not.

Each of these threats could be interpreted as "foreknowledge" of the assassination. Somebody talked about the president going to be killed, and the president was killed. Foreknowledge? Hardly!

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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers

"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather

"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy

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Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 12:37:01 PM

Super Member

Posts: 8758

Uh, Bill, is it that time, again? --

What?

You don't mean you are really questioning Rose Cheramie's story? Nnauughhhhh.....

I cannot believe that!

Either you are not aware what her story is (my guess), or, you are trying float some serious disinformation here. Whoa!

Well, to be fair, maybe that's understandable after all because if Rose's story is verified, then Lee as a LN is exploded & crushed forever! WOW!

OK, let's see, then. Let's look closely & carefully.

Just for openers, try this:

From the July-August 1999 issue (Vol. 6 No. 5)
Rose Cheramie: How She Predicted the JFK Assassination

By Jim DiEugenio

On November 20, 1963, Lt. Francis Fruge of the Louisiana State Police received a phone call from Moosa Memorial Hospital in Eunice. A Mrs. Louise Guillory, the hospital administrator told him that there was an accident victim in the emergency ward. Guillory knew that Fruge worked the narcotics detail and she felt that the woman was under the influence of drugs.

Fruge immediately left for the hospital. When he got there he encountered a middle-aged white female sitting down in the waiting room outside emergency. There were no serious injuries; only bruises and abrasions. She was only partly coherent. But Moosa was a private hospital and since the woman seemed bereft of funds, Guillory had called Fruge to see what he could do to help. The woman identified herself to Fruge as Rose Cheramie.

Fruge had no choice at the time except to place Cheramie in the Eunice City Jail. He then went out to attend the Eunice Police Department’s Annual Ball. About an hour later a police officer came over to the function and told Fruge that Cheramie was undergoing withdrawal symptoms. Fruge came back and, after recognizing the condition, called a local doctor, Dr. Derouin, from the coroner’s office. Derouin administered a sedative via syringe to calm her down. The doctor then suggested that she be removed from the jail and taken to the state facility in Jackson. After Fruge agreed, Derouin called the facility at about midnight on the 20th and made arrangements for her delivery there. Afterwards, Fruge called Charity Hospital in Lafayette and ordered an ambulance for the transport to the hospital.

Fruge accompanied Cheramie to the hospital. And, according to his House Select Committee deposition, it was at this point that Rose began to relate her fascinating and astonishing tale. Calmed by the sedative, and according to Fruge, quite lucid, she began to respond to some routine questions with some quite unusual answers. She told him that she was en route from Florida to Dallas with two men who looked Cuban or Italian. The men told her that they were going to kill the president in Dallas in just a few days. Cheramie herself was not part of the plot but apparently the men were also part of a large dope ring with Rose since Cheramie’s function was as a courier of funds for heroin which was to be dropped off to her by a seaman coming into the port of Galveston. She was to pick up the money for the drugs from a man who was holding her child. It seemed a quite intricate dope ring since she was then to transport the heroin to Mexico. The two men were supposed to accompany her to Mexico but the whole transaction got short-circuited on Highway 190 near Eunice. In the confines of a seedy bar called the Silver Slipper Lounge, Cheramie’s two friends were met by a third party. Rose left with the two men she came with. But a short distance away from the bar, an argument apparently ensued. And although some have written that she was thrown out of the vehicle and hit by an oncoming car, according to Fruge, Rose said that the argument took place inside the Silver Slipper, and that the two men and the manager, Mac Manual, threw her out. While hitchhiking on the 190, she was hit by a car driven by one Frank Odom. It was Odom who then delivered her to Moosa. As Fruge so memorably recalled to Jonathan Blackmer of the HSCA, Cheramie summed up her itinerary in Dallas in the following manner: "She said she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill Kennedy." (p. 9 of Fruge’s 4/18/78 deposition)

At the hospital, Cheramie again predicted the assassination. On November 22nd, several nurses were watching television with Cheramie. According to these witnesses, "…during the telecast moments before Kennedy was shot Rose Cheramie stated to them, ‘This is when it is going to happen’ and at that moment Kennedy was assassinated. The nurses, in turn, told others of Cheramie’s prognostication." (Memo of Frank Meloche to Louis Ivon, 5/22/67. Although the Dallas motorcade was not broadcast live on the major networks, the nurses were likely referring to the spot reports that circulated through local channels in the vicinity of the trip. Of course, the assassination itself was reported on by network television almost immediately after it happened.) Further, according to a psychiatrist there, Dr. Victor Weiss, Rose "…told him that she knew both Ruby and Oswald and had seen them sitting together on occasions at Ruby’s club." (Ibid., 3/13/67) In fact, Fruge later confirmed the fact that she had worked as a stripper for Ruby. (Louisiana State Police report of 4/4/67.)

Fruge had discounted Cheramie’s earlier comments to him as drug-induced delusions. Or, as he said to Blackmer, "When she came out with the Kennedy business, I just said, wait a minute, wait a minute, something wrong here somewhere." (Fruge, HSCA deposition, p. 9) He further described her in this manner:

Now, bear in mind that she talked: she’d talk for awhile, looks like the shots would have effect on her again and she’d go in, you know, she’d just get numb, and after awhile she’d just start talking again. (Ibid.)

But apparently, at the time of the assassination Cheramie appeared fine. The word spread throughout the hospital that she had predicted Kennedy’s murder in advance. Dr. Wayne Owen, who had been interning from LSU at the time, later told the Madison Capital Times that he and other interns were told of the plot in advance of the assassination. Amazingly, Cheramie even predicted the role of her former boss Jack Ruby because Owen was quoted as saying that one of the interns was told "…that one of the men involved in the plot was a man named Jack Rubinstein." (2/11/68) Owen said that they shrugged it off at the time. But when they learned that Rubinstein was Ruby they grew quite concerned. "We were all assured that something would be done about it by the FBI or someone. Yet we never heard anything." (Ibid.) In fact, Cheramie’s association with Ruby was also revealed to Dr. Weiss. For in an interview with him after the assassination, Rose revealed that she had worked as a drug courier for Jack Ruby. (Memo of Frank Meloche to Jim Garrison, 2/23/67) In the same memo, there is further elaboration on this important point:

I believe she also mentioned that she worked in the night club for Ruby and that she was forced to go to Florida with another man whom she did not name to pick up a shipment of dope to take back to Dallas, that she didn’t want to do this thing but she had a young child and that they would hurt her child if she didn’t.

These comments are, of course, very revealing about Ruby’s role in both an intricate drug smuggling scheme and, at the least, his probable acquaintance with men who either had knowledge of, or were actually involved in, the assassination. This is a major point in this story which we will return to later.

Although Fruge had discounted the Cheramie story on November 20th, the events of the 22nd made him a believer. Right after JFK’s murder, Fruge "…called that hospital up in Jackson and told them by no way in the world to turn her loose until I could get my hands on her." (Fruge’s HSCA deposition, p. 12.) So on November 25th, Fruge journeyed up to Jackson again to talk to Cheramie. This time he conducted a much more in-depth interview. Fruge found out that Cheramie had been traveling with the two men from Miami. He also found that the men seemed to be a part of the conspiracy rather than to be just aware of it. After the assassination, they were supposed to stop by a home in Dallas to pick up both around eight thousand dollars plus Rose’s baby. From there Cheramie was supposed to check into the Rice Hotel in Houston under an assumed name. Houston is in close proximity to Galveston, the town from which the drugs were coming in from. From Houston, once the transaction was completed, the trio were headed for Mexico.

How reliable a witness was Cheramie? Extremely. Fruge decided to have the drug deal aspect of her story checked out by the state troopers and U. S. Customs. The officers confirmed the name of the seaman on board the correct ship coming into Galveston. The Customs people checked the Rice Hotel and the reservations had been made for her under an assumed name. The contact who had the money and her baby was checked and his name showed that he was an underworld, suspected narcotics dealer. Fruge checked Cheramie’s baggage and found that one box had baby clothes and shoes inside.

Fruge flew Cheramie from Louisiana to Houston on Tuesday, the 26th. In the back seat of the small Sesna 180, a newspaper was lying between them. One of the headlines read to the effect that "investigators or something had not been able to establish a relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald." (Fruge’s HSCA deposition p. 19) When Cheramie read this headline, she started to giggle. She then added, "Them two queer sons-of-a-bitches. They’ve been shacking up for years." (Ibid.) She added that she knew this to be true from her experience of working for Ruby. Fruge then had his superior call up Captain Will Fritz of the Dallas Police to relay what an important witness Cheramie could be in his investigation. Fruge related what followed next:

Colonel Morgan called Captain Fritz up from Dallas and told him what we had, the information that we had, that we had a person that had given us this information. And of course there again it was an old friend, and there was a little conversation. But anyway, when Colonel Morgan hung up, he turned around and told us they don’t want her. They’re not interested.

Fruge then asked Cheramie if she wished to try telling her tale to the FBI. She declined. She did not wish to involve herself further. With this, the Cheramie investigation was now halted. Rose was released and Fruge went back to Louisiana. So, just four days after the assassination, with an extremely and provably credible witness alive, with her potentially explosive testimony able to be checked out, the Cheramie testimony was now escorted out to pasture. Eyewitness testimony that Ruby knew Oswald, that Ruby was somehow involved in an international drug circle, that two Latins were aware of and perhaps involved in a plot to kill Kennedy, and that Ruby probably knew the men; this incredible lead—the type investigators pine for—was being shunted aside by Fritz. It would stay offstage until Jim Garrison began to poke into the Kennedy case years later.

...

The rest of this article can be found in The Assassinations, edited by Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease.

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Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 12:54:56 PM

Super Member

Posts: 9052

Miles,

First of all, it is not "that time again". I'd love to see you go and start that again, see where it lands you. It was a quick 2 weeks as far as I'm concerned.

Secondly, nobody is "floating disinformation here". That's just you being paranoid.

Third, the story of Rose Cherami is garbage, nothing more. I have seen that article by DiEugenio, and it's even more garbage. August of 1999? By that time, anyone can say anything that they want. What matters here is what was said and done in the 60's. In 1967, Dr. Victor Weiss recalled speaking to Cherami in 1963, but stated he couldn't remember whether she had spoken of the assassination before or after it occurred.

Jim Garrison's office conducted numerous interviews with East State Louisiana Hospital personnel, but couldn't come up with a single first-hand witness who heard Rose Cherami predict the assassination.

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Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 03:21:24 PM

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Posts: 8758

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Third, the story of Rose Cherami is garbage, nothing more. I have seen that article by DiEugenio, and it's even more garbage. August of 1999? By that time, anyone can say anything that they want. What matters here is what was said and done in the 60's. In 1967, Dr. Victor Weiss recalled speaking to Cherami in 1963, but stated he couldn't remember whether she had spoken of the assassination before or after it occurred.

Bill,

Nonsense.

It's not going to work.

You just can't call major researchers like DiEugenio "garbage" and expect that kind of mud slinging on your part to somehow prop up an indefensible position, your position.

Next, I expect you to try to "trash" the Odio incident, also.

Well, I guess you are ready to "garbage" label the likes of Larry Hancock?

Let's see.

Take long, very, very careful look at this thread & then we'll see:

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Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 04:36:23 PM

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Posts: 9052

Miles,

All one has to do is ask this one simple question....

On roughly November 20th, two days before the assassination, Dr. Weiss supposedly heard Cherami make comments along the lines of "the President is going to be shot". Then, two days later, it happens. What does he do about this? Nothing! Does he go to the authorities like any of us would have done? No! Instead, he waits until 1967, 2 years after Cherami's death, to make a ridiculous claim about how she predicted the death of the President. Garrison's office conducted numerous interviews with East State Louisiana Hospital personnel, but couldn't come up with a single first-hand witness who heard Rose Cherami predict the assassination. Weiss is making it all up Miles, get over it, it happens!

The question to ask yourself.... If you were Weiss, wouldn't you have went to the authorities with this amazing story as soon as the President was assassinated and tell them that this patient predicted the assassination 2 days ago?

Sorry Miles, it just doesn't jive. You're being foolish for falling for it. I thought you were smarter than that.

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Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 05:28:36 PM

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Bill,

Sorry, it's just silly to think Ozzie a LN. Face it. --

It's as I have already said:

1.) Either you have not read the evidence as presented in this thread by me. (I think this is the correct option.)

2.) Or, you are deliberated misstating the facts in order to mislead.

You said:

"On roughly November 20th, two days before the assassination, Dr. Weiss supposedly heard Cherami make comments along the lines of "the President is going to be shot"." -- Bill Brown

Dr. Weiss never said that he heard Cheramie make these comments. Dr. Weiss said that Cheramie said this to other staff.

Yes, Bill, one way to avoid hard evidence is to not read it. What you are saying reveals that you are deliberately not reading what has been posted on this thread.

This Ostrich Defense of yours is not going to work.

Read this:

HSCA Vol X

ROSE CHERAMIE

Staff Report

of the

Select Committee on Assassinations

U.S. House of Representatives

Ninety-fifth Congress

Second Session

March 1979

(197)

198

(Blank Page)

ROSE CHERAMIE

(1) According to accounts of assassinations researchers, a woman known as Rose
Cheramie, a heroin addict and prostitute with a long history of arrests, was
found on November 20, 1963, lying on the road near Eunice, La., bruised and
disoriented.(1) She was taken to the Louisiana State Hospital in Jackson, La.,
to recover from her injuries and what appeared to be narcotics withdrawal.(2)
Cheramine reportedly told the attending physician that President Kennedy was
going to be killed during his forthcoming visit to Dallas.(3) The doctor did not
pay much attention to the ravings of a patient going "cold turkey" until after
the President was assassinated 2 days later.(4) State police were called in and
Cheramie was questioned at length.(5) She reportedly told police officers she
had been a stripper in Jack Ruby's night club and was transporting a quantity of
heroin from Florida to Houston at Ruby's insistence when she quarreled with two
men also participating in the dope run.(6) Cheramie said the men pushed her out
of a moving vehicle and left her for dead.(7) After the assassination, Cheramie
maintained Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald had known each other well.(8) She said she
had seen Oswald at Ruby's night club and claimed Oswald and Ruby had been
homosexual partners.(9)
(2) Ironically, the circustances of Rose Cheramie's death are strikingly
similar to the circumstances surrounding her original involvement in the
assassination investigation. Cheramie died of injuries received from an
automobile accident on a strip of highway near Big Sandy, Tex., in the early
morning of September 4, 1965.(10) The driver stated Cheramie had been lying in
the roadway and although he attempted to avoid hitting her, he ran over the top
of her skull, causing fatal injuries.(11) An investigation into the accident and
the possibility of a relationship between the victim and the driver produced no
evidence of foul play.(12) The case was closed.(13)
(3) Although Cheramie's allegations were eventually discounted, her death 2
years later prompted renewed speculation about her story. It was noted, for
example, that over 50 individuals who had been associated with the investigation
of the Kennedy assassination had died within 3 years of that event.(14) The
deaths, by natural or other causes, were labeled "mysterious" by Warren
Commission critics and the news media.(15) The skeptics claim that the laws of
probability would show the number of deaths is so unlikely as to be highly
suspect.(16) As detailed elsewhere, the committee studied such claims and
determined they were erroneous.(17) Nevertheless, allegations involving Rose
Cheramie, often counted among the "mysterious" deaths, was of particular
interest to the committee, since it indicated a possible association of Lee
Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby; an association of these individuals with members of
organized crime; and possible connection between Cheramie's confinement at the
State Hospital in Jackson, La.

200

and Oswald's search for employment there in the summer of 1963.
(4) The committee set out to obtain a full account of the Cheramie allegations
and determine whether her statements could be at all corroborated. The committee
interviewed and deposed pertinent witnesses. Files from U.S. Customs and the FBI
were requested. Information developed during the investigation by New Orleans
District Attorney Jim Garrison was examined. Records of Cheramie's
hospitalization at the East Louisiana State Hospital were studied.
(5) Hospital records indicate Melba Christine Marcades, alias Rose Cheramie,
was brought to the State Hospital in Jackson, La. by police from Eunice on
November 21, 1963 and officially admitted at 6 a.m.(18) She was originally from
Houston, Tex., where her mother still lived.(19) She was approximately 34 years
old in 1963, had used many aliases throughout her lifetime and had lived many
years in Louisiana and Texas.(20)
(6) According to the clinical notes, the deputy accompanying Cheramie said the
patient had been "picked up on [the] side of [the] road and had been given
something by the coroner."(21) The coroner in Eunice was contacted by doctors at
the hospital and he told them Cheramie had been coherent when he spoke with her
at 10:30 p.m., November 20, but he did administer a sedative.(22) He further
indicated that Cheramie was a 9-year mainlining heroin addict, whose last
injection had been around 2 p.m., November 20.(23) The doctors noted that
Cheramie's condition upon initial examination indicated heroin withdrawal and
clinical shock.(24)
(7) Relevant to Cheramie's credibility was an assessment of her mental state.
From November 22 to November 24, Cheramie required close attention and
medication.(25) On November 25 she was transferred to the ward.(26) On November
27 she was released to Louisiana State Police Lieutenant Fruge.(27)
(8) The hospital records gave no reference as to alleged statements made by
Cheramie or why she was released to Lieutenant Fruge on November 27, 1963. These
records do indicate Cheramie had been hospitalized for alcoholism and narcotics
addiction on other occasions, including commitment to the same hospital in March
1961 by the criminal court of New Orleans.(28) During this stay, the woman was
diagnosed as". . . without psychosis. However, because of her previous record of
drug addiction she may have a mild integrative and pleasure defect."(29) Her
record would show she has "intervals of very good behavior" but at other times
she "presents episodically psychopathic behavior" indicative in her history of
drug and alcohol abuse, prostitution, arrest on numerous, if minor, charges.(30)
(9) The committee interviewed one of the doctors on staff at East Louisiana
State Hospital who had seen Cheramie during her stay there at the time of the
Kennedy assassination.(31) The doctor corroborated aspects of the Cheramie
allegations. Dr. Victor Weiss verified that he was employed as a resident
physician at the hospital in 1963.(32) He recalled that on Monday, November
25,1963, he was asked by another physician, Dr. Bowers, to see a patient who had
been committed November 20 or 21.(33) Dr. Bowers allegedly told Weiss that the
patient, Rose Cheramie, had stated before the assassination that President
Kennedy was going to be killed.(34) Weiss questioned Cheramie about

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her statements.(35) She told him she had worked for Jack Ruby. She did not have
any specific details of a particular assassination plot against Kennedy, but had
stated the "word in the underworld" was that Kennedy would be assassinated.(36)
She further stated that she had been traveling from Florida to her home in Texas
when the man traveling with her threw her from the automobile in which they were
riding.(37)
(10) Francis Fruge, a lieutenant with the Louisiana State Police in 1963, was
the police officer who first came to Cheramie's assistance on November 20, 1963,
had her committed to the State Hospital, and later released her into his custody
following the assassination to investigate her allegations.(38) As such, he
provided an account further detailing her allegations and the official response
to her allegations.
(11) Fruge was deposed by the committee on April 18, 1978.(39) He told the
committee he was called on november 20, 1963 by an administrator at a private
hospital in Eunice, La. that a female accident victim had been taken there for
treatment.(40) She had been treated for minor abrasions, and although she
appeared to be under the influence of drugs since she had "no financial basis"
she was to be released.(41) Fruge did what he normally did in such instances. As
the woman required no further medical attention, he put her in a jail cell to
sober up.(42) This arrangement did not last long. The woman began to display
severe symptoms of withdrawal.(43) Fruge said he called a doctor, who sedated
Chereamie and Fruge transported Cheramie to the State hospital in Jackson,
La.(44)
(12) Fruge said that during the "1 to 2 hour" ride to Jackson, he asked
Cheramie some "routine" questions.(45) Fruge told the committee:
She related to me that she was coming from Florida to Dallas with men who
were Italians or resembled Italians.
They had stopped at this lounge . . . and they'd had a few drinks and had
gotten into an argument or something. The manager of the lounge threw her out
and she got on the road and hitchhiked to catch a ride, and this is when she got
hit by a vehicle.(46)
Fruge said the lounge was a house of prostitution called the Silver
Slipper.(47) Fruge asked Cheramie what she was going to do in Dallas: "She said
she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill
Kennedy."(48) Fruge claimed during these intervals that Cheramie related the
story she appeared to be quite lucid.(49) Fruge had Cheramie admitted to the
hospital late on November 20.(50)
(13) On November 22, when he heard the President had been assassinated, Fruge
said he immediately called the hospital and told them not to release Cheramie
until he had spoken to her.(51) The hospital administrators assented but said
Fruge would have to wait until the following Monday before Cheramie would be
well enough to speak to anyone.(52) Fruge waited. Under questioning, Cheramie
told Fruge that the two men traveling with her from Miami were going to Dallas
to kill the President.(53) For her part, Cheramie was to obtain $8,000 from an
unidentified source in Dallas and proceed to houston with the two men to
complete a drug deal.(54) Cheramie was also supposed to

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pick up her little boy from friends who had been looking after him.(55)
(14) Cheramie further supplied detailed accounts of the arrangement for the
drug transaction in Houston.(56) She said reservations had been made at the Rice
Hotel in Houston.(57) The trio was to meet a seaman who was bringing in 8 kilos
of heroin to Galveston by boat.(58) Cheramie had the name of the seaman and the
boat he was arriving on.(59) Once the deal was completed, the trio would proceed
to Mexico.(60)
(15) Fruge told the committee that he repeated Cheramie's story to his
supervisors and asked for instructions.(61) He was told to follow up on it.(62)
Fruge promptly took Cheramie into custody-as indicated in hospital records-and
set out to check her story.(63) He contacted the chief customs agent in
Galveston who reportedly verified the scheduled docking of the boat and the name
of the seaman.(64) Fruge believed the customs agent was also able to verify the
name of the man in Dallas who was holding Cheramie's son.(65) Fruge recalled
that the customs agent had tailed the seaman as he disembarked from the boat,
but then lost the man's trail.(70) Customs closed the case.(71)
(16) Fruge had also hoped to corroborate other statements made by Cheramie.
During a flight from houston, according to Fruge, Cheramie noticed a newspaper
with headlines indicating investigators had not been able to establish a
relationship between Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.(72) Cheramie laughed at
the headline, Fruge said.(73) Cheramie told him she had worked for Ruby, of
"Pinky," as she knew him, at his night club in Dallas and claimed Ruby and
Oswald "had been shacking up for years.(74) Fruge said he called Capt. Will
Fritz of the Dallas Police Department with this information.(75) Fritz answered,
he wasn't interested.(76) Fritz and the Louisiana State Police dropped the
investigation into the matter.(77)
(17) Four years later, however, investigators from the office of District
Attorney Garrison in New Orleans contacted Fruge.(78) Fruge went on detail to
Garrison's office to assist in the investigation into the Kennedy
assassination.(79)
(18) During the course of the New Orleans D.A.'s investigation Fruge was able
to pursue leads in the Cheramie case that he had not checked out in the original
investigation. Although there appeared to be different versions as to how
Cheramie ended up by the side of the road, and the number and identity of her
companions, Fruge attempted to corroborate the version she had given him. Fruge
spoke with the owner of the Silver Slipper Lounge.(80) The bar owner, a Mr.
MacManual since deceased, told Fruge that Cheramie had come in with two men who
the owner knew as pimps engaged in the business of hauling prostitutes in from
Florida.(81) When Cheramie became intoxicated and rowdy, one of the men "slapped
her around" and threw her outside.(82)
(19) Fruge claims that he showed the owner of the bar a "stack" of photographs
and mug shots to identify.(83) According to Fruge the barowner chose the photos
of a Cuban exile, Sergio Arcacha Smith, and another Cuban Fruge believed to be
named Osanto.(84) Arcacha Smith was known to Kennedy assassination investigators
as an anti-Castro Cuban refugee who had been active in 1961 as the head of the
New Orleans Cuban Revolutionary Front.(85) At that time, he befriended
anti-Castro activist and commercial pilot David Ferrie, who

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was named and dismissed as a suspect in the Kennedy assassination within days of
the President's death.(86) Ferrie and Arcacha Smith were also believed to have
had ties with New Orleans organized crime figure Carlos Marcello.(87) Arcacha
Smith moved from the New Orleans area in 1962 to go to Miami and later to settle
in Houston.(88) The weekend following the assassination, Ferrie took a trip to
Houston and Galveston for a little "rest and relaxation," while police searched
New Orleans for him after receiving a tip he had been involved in the
assassination.(89) The committee has found credible evidence indicating Ferrie
and Oswald were seen together in August 1963 in the town of Clinton, La., 13
miles from the hospital in Jackson where Cheramie was treated and where Oswald
reportedly sought employment. Allegations regarding Arcacha Smith and Ferrie and
the committee's investigation are set forth in detail elsewhere in the Report.
(90) Clearly, evidence of a link between Cheramie and Arcacha Smith would be
highly significant, Arcacha Smith, however, denied any knowledge of Cheramie and
her allegations. Other avenues of corroboration of Fruge's identification of
Cheramie's traveling companion as Sergio Arcacha Smith and further
substantiation of Cheramie's allegations remained elusive.
(20) U.S. Customs was unable to locate documents and reports related to its
involvement in the Cheramie investigation although such involvement was not
denied.(91) Nor could customs officials locate those agents named by Fruge as
having participated in the original investigation, as they had since left the
employ of the agency.(92)
(21) Since the FBI had never been notified by the Louisiana State Police and
U.S. Customs of their interest in Cheramie, the FBI file did not have any
reference to the Cheramie allegations of November 1963.(93) FBI files did give
reference to the investigation of a tip from Melba Mercades, actually Rose
Cheramie, in Ardmore, Okla. that she was en route to Dallas to deliver $2,600
worth of heroin to a man in Oak Cliff, Tex.(94) She was then to proceed to
Galveston, Tex., to pick up a load of narcotics from a seaman on board a ship
destined for Galveston in the next few days.(95) She gave "detailed descriptions
as to individuals, names, places, and amounts distributed."(96) Investigations
were conducted by narcotics bureaus in Oklahoma and Texas and her information
was found to be "erroneous in all respects."(97)
(22) A similar tale was told in 1965: FBI agents investigated a tip from
Rozella Clinkscales, alias Melba Marcades, alias Rose Cheramie.(98) Like the
stories told in 1963, Cheramie-Clinkscales claimed individuals associated with
the syndicate were running prostitution rings in several southern cities such as
Houston and Galveston, Tex., Oklahoma City, Okla. and Montgomery, Ala. by
transporting hookers, including Cheramie-Clinkscales, from town to town.(99)
Furthermore, she claimed she had information about a heroin deal operating from
a New Orleans ship.(100) A call to the Coast Guard verified an ongoing narcotics
investigation of the ship.(101) Other allegations made by Cheramie-Clinkscales
could not be verified. Further investigation into Cheramie-Clinkscales revealed
she had apparently previously furnished the FBI false information concerning her
involvement in prostitution and narcotics matters and that she had been confined
to a mental institution in Norman, Okla. on three

204

occasions.(102) FBI agents decided to pursue the case no further.(103) The FBI
indicated agents did not know of the death of their informant on September 4,
1965, occurring just 1 month after she had contacted the FBI. Louisiana State
Police investigating Cheramie's fatal accident also apparently did not know of
the FBI's interest in her.

Submitted by,
PATRICIA ORR, Researcher.

REFERENCES

(1) "The Bizarre Deaths Following JFK's Murder," Argosy. March 1977,
Vol. 384, No.8, p.52 (JFK Document No. 002559).
(2) Ibid.
(3) Ibid.
(4) Ibid.
(5) Ibid.
(6) Ibid.
(7) Ibid.
(8) Ibid.
(9) Ibid.
(10) Louisiana State Police Memo, from Lt. Francis Fruge, Parish of St.
Landry, April 4, 1967, in (JFK Document No. 013520).
(11) Ibid.
(12) Ibid.
(13) Ibid.
(14) "The Bizarre Deaths. . ." See FN No. 1.
(15) Ibid.
(16) Ibid.
(17) See Anti-Castro Cuban section of the Staff Reports.
(18) East Louisiana State Hospital, Jackson, La., records for Melba
Christine Marcades AKA Rose Cheramie, (JFK Document No. 006097).
(19) Ibid.
(20) Ibid. Note: FBI records list Cheramie's (Marcades) birthdate as
October 14, 1932, in Dallas, Tex.(See FBI file No.166-1640 in JFK Document No.
012979).
(21) Ibid.
(22) Ibid.
(23) Ibid.
(24) Ibid.
(25) Ibid.
(26) Ibid.
(27) Ibid.
(28) Ibid.
(29) Ibid.
(30) Ibid.
(31) HSCA Contact Report, July 5, 1978, Bob Buras (with Dr. Victor Weiss)
(JFK Document No. 009699).
(32) Ibid.
(33) Ibid.
(34) Ibid.
(35) Ibid.
(36) Ibid.
(37) Ibid.
(38) HSCA Contact Report, April 7, 1978, Bob Buras (with Mr. Francis Louis
Fruge), p. 1 (JFK Document No. 014141).
(39) HSCA Deposition of Francis Louis Fruge, April 18, 1978 (JFK Document
No. 014570).
(40) Id. at p. 4-5.
(41) Id. at p. 5.
(42) Ibid.
(43) Id. at p. 6.
(44) Ibid.
(45) Id. at p. 8.
(46) Ibid.
(47) Id. at p. 9.

205

(48) Id. at p.13.
(49) Ibid.
(50) Ibid.
(51) Id. at p.12.
(52) Ibid.
(53) Id. at p.13.
(54) Id. at p.14.
(55) Ibid.
(56) Ibid.
(57) Ibid.
(58) Ibid.
(59) Ibid.
(60) Ibid.
(61) Ibid.
(62) Id. at p. 15.
(63) Id. at p. 17; East Louisiana State hospital, Jackson, La., records for
Melba Christine Marcades AKA Rose Cheramie (JFK Document No. 006097).
(64) HSCA Deposition of Francis Louis Fruge, April 18, 1978, p.20 (JFK
Document No. 014570).
(65) Id. at p. 22.
(66) Ibid.
(67) Id. at p. 18.
(68) Id. at p. 22.
(69) Id. at p. 23.
(70) Ibid.
(71) Ibid.
(72) Id. at p. 19.
(73) Ibid.
(74) Ibid. Note: Fruge also indicated the Club was called the "Pink Door,"
although ruby is not known to have ever had a club by this name. See also,
Louisiana State Police Memo., April 4, 1967, from Lt. Francis Fruge, Parish of
St. Landry, in JFK Document No. 013520).
(75) Id. at p. 20.
(76) Ibid.
(77) Ibid.
(78) Id. at p. 24.
(79) Id. at p. 25.
(80) Id. at p. 27-8.
(81) Id. at p. 27.
(82) Id. at p. 28. See also HSCA Contact Report, April 7, 1978, Bob Buras
(with Francis Louis Fruge) (JFK Document No. 0141414).
(83) Id. at p.28.
(84) Id. at p. 28,30.
(85) See Staff Report on Anti-Castro Cuban activity.
(86) Ibid.
(87) Ibid.
(88) Ibid.
(89) See Staff Report on Anti-Castro activity.
(90) Ibid.
(91) See Staff Memo., Rose Cheramie File, contact with Dennis Cronin, U.S.
Customs (JFK Document No. 013520).
(92) HSCA Contact Report, June 26, 1978, Marty Daly (with U.S. Customs),
(JFK Document No. 009481).
(93) See FBI file no. 166-1604 for Melba Christine Marcades, Vol. 1 of 1,
(JFK Document No. 012979).
(94) Id. at FBI 166-1604-3, February 11, 1966, Enclosure No. 1.
(95) Id. at FBI 166-1604-2, December 14, 1965, Enclosure.
(96) Ibid.
(97) Ibid.
(98) Id. at FBI 166-1604-1, November 23, 1965, p. 1.
(99) Id. at p.3.
(100) Id. at p.2.
(101) Id. at p.4.
(102) Ibid.
(103) Ibid.
(104) East Louisiana State hospital, Jackson, La., records for Melba
Christine Marcades AKA Rose Cheramie (JFK Document No. 006097).

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Reply

Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 06:48:18 PM

Super Member

Posts: 9052

Quote

Dr. Weiss never said that he heard Cheramie make these comments. Dr. Weiss said that Cheramie said this to other staff.

Miles, Garrison's office conducted numerous interviews with East State Louisiana Hospital personnel, but couldn't come up with a single first-hand witness who heard Rose Cherami predict the assassination.

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Reply

Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 07:00:58 PM

Super Member

Posts: 9052

Quote

Dr. Weiss never said that he heard Cheramie make these comments. Dr. Weiss said that Cheramie said this to other staff.

Miles, at the end of the video that you posted, Weiss says: "I had a tendency to believe her story". Nevertheless, the point remains the same, why doesn't Weiss, or the staff that supposedly heard this "prediction", go to the authorities after the assassination? The answer is because this "prediction" never happened.

Miles, you'll fall for almost any story. I bet the salespeople just love you.

By the way, an ostrich with it's head in the sand? Really? You can do better than that!

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« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 07:02:26 PM by Bill Brown »

Reply

Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 08:49:30 PM

Super Member

Posts: 8758

Uh, Bill,

You can run, but you can't hide. Ozzie as a LN is exploded! -- thumbs1xx

I have said three times now:

You are not reading or not comprehending what you have read of what has been presented here by me in this topic thread.

What is your problem?

Look, now, again:

HSCA Vol X

ROSE CHERAMIE

Staff Report

of the

Select Committee on Assassinations

U.S. House of Representatives

Ninety-fifth Congress

Second Session

March 1979

"(11) Fruge was deposed by the committee on April 18, 1978.(39) He told the
committee he was called on November 20, 1963 by an administrator at a private
hospital in Eunice, La. that a female accident victim had been taken there for
treatment.(40) She had been treated for minor abrasions, and although she
appeared to be under the influence of drugs since she had "no financial basis"
she was to be released.(41) Fruge did what he normally did in such instances. As
the woman required no further medical attention, he put her in a jail cell to
sober up.(42) This arrangement did not last long. The woman began to display
severe symptoms of withdrawal.(43) Fruge said he called a doctor, who sedated
Chereamie and Fruge transported Cheramie to the State hospital in Jackson,
La.(44)
(12) Fruge said that during the "1 to 2 hour" ride to Jackson, he asked
Cheramie some "routine" questions.(45) Fruge told the committee:
She related to me that she was coming from Florida to Dallas with men who
were Italians or resembled Italians.
They had stopped at this lounge . . . and they'd had a few drinks and had
gotten into an argument or something. The manager of the lounge threw her out
and she got on the road and hitchhiked to catch a ride, and this is when she got
hit by a vehicle.(46)
Fruge said the lounge was a house of prostitution called the Silver
Slipper.(47) Fruge asked Cheramie what she was going to do in Dallas: "She said
she was going to, number one, pick up some money, pick up her baby, and to kill
Kennedy."(48) Fruge claimed during these intervals that Cheramie related the
story she appeared to be quite lucid.(49) Fruge had Cheramie admitted to the
hospital late on November 20.(50)"

and to kill
Kennedy. ---- oglexx

What is not clear?

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Reply

Bill Brown

July 12, 2009, 09:06:05 PM

Super Member

Posts: 9052

Quote

What is not clear?

You can't see that Fruge (or anyone else at the hospital) didn't go to the authorities on the day of the assassination, or even in the days following?

You're posting something that was said to the committee in 1978 for crying out loud. This has been my point from the beginning. Pay attention.

Please address the fact that no one at the hospital went to the authorities in November of 1963. They only came up with this story after Cherami was dead. They probably remembered the comments that she made after Ruby shot Oswald regarding Ruby and Oswald knowing each other (which was an obvious lie on her part), and they simply embellished on it since she was dead.

Miles, please stay away from those sly salespeople, they'll only take advantage of you.

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Reply

Miles Scull

July 12, 2009, 09:21:02 PM

Super Member

Posts: 8758

As a guest, you are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Quote

What is not clear?

Rubbish.

This has already been explained several times.

Fruge on the 20th did not put great credence in Cheramie's comments, considering her condition & press of the circumstances relating to her health, etc.

That was completely natural.

But, on learning of the assassination Fruge was shocked & acted appropriately, then!

Sorry, Bill, but Ozzie, as a LN, is incinerated toast.

Sooner you realize this, the better.

snoozexx

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